Arizona Immigration Bill PASSES!!

[Hot Mega]

The problem is people from Mexico think this is just about them. It isn't. This state has a lot of illegals from Central and South America.

Not sure most Latinos separate themselves among nationalities when it comes to what they perceive to be in the interests of Latinos. Latinos of Cuban origin being the exception as they generally have a different (single issue) agenda...getting Americans to give a shit about what kind of g'ment Cuba has.

You do not have rights when you are not a citizen.

Well the debate is about whether some should have access to services. But you are technically wrong. All people here in the US have some basic rights regardless of their citizenship status (i.e. You still have the right against being murdered, raped, etc. no matter if you're here legally or not.)

Perhaps the Feds should get off their ass and do their job. :2 cents:

What exactly aren't the Feds doing? We have a border check point, agencies which interdict illegal border crossings, etc. Just because the efforts are not as effective as we would like doesn't mean the Feds aren't on the job. Like saying cops aren't doing their jobs because crime isn't at zero pct.

BTW, I'm still the only, "...don't care.."vote. :bigjump:

PS...Wanna to bitch about illegal immigration? Bitch at the people who hire them...not g'ment for not being able to trap every fly (as it were). If we've learned anything from the Great Recession is that if there are no jobs...you don't need to round them up or build fences..they will go home on their own.:2 cents:

 

[ballzano]

Not sure most Latinos separate themselves among nationalities when it comes to what they perceive to be in the interests of Latinos. Latinos of Cuban origin being the exception as they generally have a different (single issue) agenda...getting Americans to give a shit about what kind of g'ment Cuba has.

Well the debate is about whether some should have access to services. But you are technically wrong. All people here in the US have some basic rights regardless of their citizenship status (i.e. You still have the right against being murdered, raped, etc. no matter if you're here legally or not.)



What exactly aren't the Feds doing? We have a border check point, agencies which interdict illegal border crossings, etc. Just because the efforts are not as effective as we would like doesn't mean the Feds aren't on the job. Like saying cops aren't doing their jobs because crime isn't at zero pct.

BTW, I'm still the only, "...don't care.."vote. :bigjump:

PS...Wanna to bitch about illegal immigration? Bitch at the people who hire them...not g'ment for not being able to trap every fly (as it were). If we've learned anything from the Great Recession is that if there are no jobs...you don't need to round them up or build fences..they will go home on their own.:2 cents:

OH sure they have basic human rights, as you pointed out not to get trampled on or exploited, but they still don't have the right to BE HERE!, and the employers are not breaking any laws for hiring them (because it's not against the law, AND THEIR NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE) sure be a lib and turn the arguement on it's side saying it's the employers resposibility while they are now paying for "O"s idiosy.

 

[Hot Mega]

OH sure they have basic human rights, as you pointed out not to get trampled on or exploited, but they still don't have the right to BE HERE!, and the employers are not breaking any laws for hiring them (because it's not against the law, AND THEIR NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE) sure be a lib and turn the arguement on it's side saying it's the employers resposibility while they are now paying for "O"s idiosy.

Not true. The right to work documents that are normally produced in order to work legally in the US is an ID and so-so security no (for tax purposes). Others are green cards and Visa.

You don't know what you're talking about. There is an incentive for various industries to attract those who they know or have reasonable suspicion are here illegally. What they pay them is the smoking gun evidence of their complicity. Make the penalties for hiring people who have no right to work here so severe that employers won't want to suffer the consequences.

No different from any other demand problem...solve demand you solve the problem. Any simple Simon should be able to see that.

 

[SN4P3]

I am for it. If you want to be in America, follow the laws and do what is required to be here legally. It's not like they are making it impossible to live in AZ, people still can, but they have to do it legally, like other things, like getting a license, marriage, etc.

 

[mushroomhunting]

The same Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives that worries about Mexican grenades making their way North of the border?http://blog.taragana.com/n/atf-worries-about-mexican-cartel-grenades-coming-into-america-129335/

I find it odd that the cartels get their grenades from the Central American black market and military, yet they get their guns only from us!

Oh wait, no I don't find it odd. Because it's not true.
http://www.opposingviews.com/arguments/guns-mexico-and-the-90-percent-myth
http://www.redcounty.com/american-g...ey-just-lie-around-and-get-twisted-pretzels-1
http://www.jpfo.org/articles-assd/mex-guns-lies.htm


If you don't like those sources, I suppose there's this. I hope you own a farm or a large garden because, if you believe the 90% nonsense, you bought a pile of bullshit.

i dont understand what you are arguing here. Your saying most weapons are coming Asia etc. and than provide a link that states The United States and South Korea rank as the top two producers of the grenades seized in Mexico, according to the ATF.
The next from a blog called "Opposing Views" which obviously is going to give the apposing view... by citing FAWX NEWS lol report. The next source from a blog called "Red Country" whom also cites Fox News report, and a gun ownership rights website whom proceeds to cite... Fox News report, and finally if i dont like those sources i can read up on Factcheck.org whom also than cites Fox news report.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYTJlZbMerk here it is

Fox News is stating only 36% is coming from United States. Your factcheck.org citation studies into this and concludes the 90% number may not be accurate, "But we also conclude that the number is at least double what Fox News has reported"

 

[roronoa3000]

I love Mexicans.

 

[Rey C.]

There is an incentive for various industries to attract those who they know or have reasonable suspicion are here illegally. What they pay them is the smoking gun evidence of their complicity.

That's it in a nutshell! :thumbsup:

Make the penalties for hiring people who have no right to work here so severe that employers won't want to suffer the consequences.

Absolutely! For the VERY same reasons that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce supported NAFTA, the support for halting illegal immigration isn't as prevalent in the business community as many might think.

I haven't read this bill. But if it doesn't include some crippling penalties for businesses that hire illegals, it'll mean nothing.

 

[Rey C.]

OH sure they have basic human rights, as you pointed out not to get trampled on or exploited, but they still don't have the right to BE HERE!, and the employers are not breaking any laws for hiring them (because it's not against the law, AND THEIR NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE) sure be a lib and turn the arguement on it's side saying it's the employers resposibility while they are now paying for "O"s idiosy.

Maybe do yourself a favor and read this before you say anything else.

Sec. 274A of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) and 8 U.S.C. 1324a, makes it unlawful for any person knowingly to hire, recruit or refer for a fee any alien not authorized to work. An employer that violates these laws can face penalties of:

· $250 to $2,000 fine for each unauthorized individual;

· $2,000 to $5,000 for each employee if the employer has previously been in violation; or

· $3,000 to $10,000 for each individual if the employer was subject to more than one cease and desist order.

The employer could also be fined $100 to $1,000 for each individual “paperwork” violation.

The criminal penalties for a pattern and practice violation can be up to $3,000 for each unauthorized alien, imprisonment up to six months, or both.

There are legal means to hire foreign workers on a temporary or permanent basis and our office can help you explore your options.

Make the minimum fine about $100K and see what happens then. Oh yeah, it'll be open kimono time then!

The problem is, like at the SEC, the FDA, the Commerce Dept. and who knows how many other government agencies (other than the Defense Dept.), people who should have been vigorously enforcing these laws have apparently been sleeping in their cubes and watching porn from 9-5 for the past 8 years. So now you have states feeling desperate and frustrated, taking matters into their own hands. I certainly don't let Obama or the Dems off the hook either. IMO, this needs to be the next issue that's tackled, not Cap and Trade. But there's no way in hell that I'm going to listen to how the GOP'ers in D.C. have been fighting the good fight on immigration reform and they just couldn't overcome the Dems' opposition. Bull! Bush was the President! If you can't pass a law, how about enforcing a law every now & again?! Did Bush not know how to contact ICE... couldn't find the number in 8 whole years??? Maybe he should have tried dialing 411 for information, or was that too hard? And now we see that the stupid ass fence that he launched doesn't work and is pretty much just a giant pork project. Amazing! :crash:

 

[titsrock]

It is my understanding that Mexican officials have employed summary execution at times when enforcing traffic on their southern border. . .
of course the msm won't tell us about it.

Hmm. This sorta sounds like your Utah post If it's good for Mexico it must be great for Utah?

I'd love to see that!

If Mexico actually closed the border from her side it would be catastrophic for the U.S. Do you have a clue where we get the bulk of our food from? Just askin.

 

[Uppercut]

I'm all for stopping illegal immigration in any way shape or form, as long as it doesn't infringe on perfectly legal citizen's rights. Also I hope they're going after all illegals and not just Hispanics. As long as these two conditions are met then yeah, I'm all for it.

The problem though, is how do the police decide who to stop and check to see if they are here illegally? Yes, the law is meant to target illegals, but a whole bunch of US citizens of Hispanic descent, many of whom have lived in Arizona for many generations, are now going to be stopped and asked to prove that they are here legally.

 

[Hot Mega]

The problem though, is how do the police decide who to stop and check to see if they are here illegally? Yes, the law is meant to target illegals, but a whole bunch of US citizens of Hispanic descent, many of whom have lived in Arizona for many generations, are now going to be stopped and asked to prove that they are here legally.

My vote is "don't care" because it will get tossed. If one of the elements of this "law" is to give g'ment agents (police, etc.) the ability to stop and search someone on the sole basis of what they look like is against the 4th Amendment.

You need probable cause someone is committing a crime to search them (even ask for ID). Looking at someone's race or ethnicity as the sole reason for suspicion is an unreasonable standard even pretty absurd.

 

[bustybbwlover]

i have a feeling this is going to be a much more expensive bill than they are expecting, on the enforcement end i mean

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

If Mexico actually closed the border from her side it would be catastrophic for the U.S. Do you have a clue where we get the bulk of our food from? Just askin.

I can't even imagine how that would be possible. :dunno:

 

[Philbert]

My vote is "don't care" because it will get tossed. If one of the elements of this "law" is to give g'ment agents (police, etc.) the ability to stop and search someone on the sole basis of what they look like is against the 4th Amendment.

You need probable cause someone is committing a crime to search them (even ask for ID). Looking at someone's race or ethnicity as the sole reason for suspicion is an unreasonable standard even pretty absurd.

Perfect example of a kneejerk post from an ignorant poster...do some research...!
I have perused the bill and immediately found a relevant portion...

FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
21 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
22 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF
23 THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO
24 IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE
25 MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON
26 EXCEPT IF THE DETERMINATION MAY HINDER OR OBSTRUCT AN INVESTIGATION. ANY
27 PERSON WHO IS ARRESTED SHALL HAVE THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS DETERMINED
28 BEFORE THE PERSON IS RELEASED. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE
29 VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION
30 1373(c). A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY,
31 CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY NOT SOLELY
32 CONSIDER RACE, COLOR OR NATIONAL ORIGIN IN IMPLEMENTING THE REQUIREMENTS OF
33 THIS SUBSECTION EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY THE UNITED STATES OR
34 ARIZONA CONSTITUTION. A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS
35 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW
36 ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
37 1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
38 2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
39 3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL
40 IDENTIFICATION.
41 4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES
42 BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT
43 ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.

Gee...no "look for brown skinned non-English speaking uninsured nonlicensed illegal Mexicans and demand they show a document permitting them to work here, drive without a license or insurance, commit welfare fraud and identity theft while living like they're still in Mexico" provisions!
Gotta follow current laws both State and Federal when dealing with the public...if ya gotta be illegal, don't drive, get drunk in public, get arrested for fighting, domestic abuse, burglary, murder, possession, etc...without carrying your Green Card or residency permit.
Or a valid US citizen proving form of ID.
No speeding, car accidents, drunk driving, or any other overt illegal activity in public...you may be returned to Mexico, where you may work legally.
Maybe NOW they'll learn better English skills to blend in better...and stop driving without DLs and insurance.
Maybe...

 

[MILF Man]

Yes! Absolutely! Jan Brewer made the right decision!

 

[Hot Mega]

Perfect example of a kneejerk post from an ignorant poster...do some research...!
I have perused the bill and immediately found a relevant portion...

FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
21 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
22 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF
23 THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO
24 IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE
25 MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON
26 EXCEPT IF THE DETERMINATION MAY HINDER OR OBSTRUCT AN INVESTIGATION. ANY
27 PERSON WHO IS ARRESTED SHALL HAVE THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS DETERMINED
28 BEFORE THE PERSON IS RELEASED. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE
29 VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION
30 1373(c). A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY,
31 CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY NOT SOLELY
32 CONSIDER RACE, COLOR OR NATIONAL ORIGIN IN IMPLEMENTING THE REQUIREMENTS OF
33 THIS SUBSECTION EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY THE UNITED STATES OR
34 ARIZONA CONSTITUTION. A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS
35 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW
36 ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
37 1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
38 2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
39 3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL
40 IDENTIFICATION.
41 4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES
42 BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT
43 ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.

Gee...no "look for brown skinned non-English speaking uninsured nonlicensed illegal Mexicans and demand they show a document permitting them to work here, drive without a license or insurance, commit welfare fraud and identity theft while living like they're still in Mexico" provisions!
Gotta follow current laws both State and Federal when dealing with the public...if ya gotta be illegal, don't drive, get drunk in public, get arrested for fighting, domestic abuse, burglary, murder, possession, etc...without carrying your Green Card or residency permit.
Or a valid US citizen proving form of ID.
No speeding, car accidents, drunk driving, or any other overt illegal activity in public...you may be returned to Mexico, where you may work legally.
Maybe NOW they'll learn better English skills to blend in better...and stop driving without DLs and insurance.
Maybe...

One of your more dumber posts ever. First of all I said "If".

Secondly, whereupon LEAs have reasonable suspicion of a crime they ALREADY can in all US jurisdictions demand ID. They ALREADY have this authority to check anyone detained for some probable cause.

Now genius define for the audience what a reasonable suspicion of an alien being here illegally is without it meaning profiling a physical characteristic. They happen to speak a language other than English?

Since the basis making initial contact by LEAs "reasonable suspicion" they are here illegally alone...how is that determined merely observing John Doe or Juan Valdez walking down the street.

Why can't LEAs randomly knock on someone's door now in AZ and demand everyone in the house produce proof of residency?

Gotta follow current laws both State and Federal when dealing with the public...if ya gotta be illegal, don't drive, get drunk in public, get arrested for fighting, domestic abuse, burglary, murder, possession, etc...without carrying your Green Card or residency permit.
Or a valid US citizen proving form of ID.
No speeding, car accidents, drunk driving, or any other overt illegal activity in public...you may be returned to Mexico, where you may work legally.
Maybe NOW they'll learn better English skills to blend in better...and stop driving without DLs and insurance.

In all that blather did you even stop to realize that already is the case for anyone???

 

[Philbert]

What does "if" have to do with anything? Like you always recommend to others when you're being your usual smarmy self... do some research! There is not an "if" here...it's clearly spelled out in the bill.

I see how you missed all that, being so eager to post your usual blather...
Having a reason to deal with someone isn't "walking down the street"...that's the law for everyone. So how did you miss that the first time you posted your silly comments?
The same penalties for profiling and unreasonable search and seizure pertain to the LEs...you are in rare form this time, your usual lame twisting of reality is going full speed ahead here...wow! More drugs like you got, please!:thumbsup:

Tough shit for the aliens whether they are Nigerian or Mexican...if you are stopped for any valid reason...can you spell "valid"?...and you are a non-English speaker...(a clue there you may not be an American citizen?)...or a heavily accented English speaker, prove you are a legal resident upon request...simple.
Only the most simple-minded or the most ignorant of HotMegas don't know there is an illegal alien problem rampant here in the US.
This is step one of the worst hit state addressing the problem. The Feds won't, so the states will.
Hopefully, in spite of the ignorant or simpleminded, the tide will continue...the states will do the jobs the Fed Gov won't do!:rofl:
(Where have I heard that expression before?)
The courts have found the action legal for a state to enforce a Fed law...too bad for illegals and the New Dem voter base...!:wave2:

 

[Hot Mega]

Tough shit for the aliens whether they are Nigerian or Mexican...if you are stopped for any valid reason...can you spell "valid"?...and you are a non-English speaker...(a clue there you may not be an American citizen?)...or a heavily accented English speaker, prove you are a legal resident upon request...simple.

Let me try this again. If you are detained for probable cause LE in every US jurisdiction ALREADY has the right to check your identity (which theoretically demonstrates your status). That's how they catch illegal aliens (among others) ALL THE TIME ALREADY.

The change here is (if you bothered to comprehend what you posted) the probable cause now is suspicion you are here illegally. Meaning LE can suspect you are here illegally without suspicion of any other crime and search you for your status.

That can simply mean observing your physical characteristics (the de facto suspicion) and making that determination (appearance profiling).

The Feds won't, so the states will.
Hopefully, in spite of the ignorant or simpleminded, the tide will continue...the states will do the jobs the Fed Gov won't do!

What are the Feds not doing (specifically)?

The courts have found the action legal for a state to enforce a Fed law...too bad for illegals and the New Dem voter base...

This law hasn't been challenged yet. What are you talking about?

 

[girk1]

No. No. No. The Supreme Court will have a look at this.

I am not surprised as this comes from a nutty state whose House of Rep. just passed the so called ' Birther Bill' obviously fueled by the paranoia & flat out lies surrounding Obama's birth.(Although Obama's place of birth has been verified & approved by Hawaii's Republican Governor)


Not too surprising neither since Arizona was one of only a few states which 'vehemetly' refused to recognize the federal MLK holiday.:dunno:

Interesting.

 

[Hot Mega]

What does "if" have to do with anything? Like you always recommend to others when you're being your usual smarmy self... do some research! There is not an "if" here...it's clearly spelled out in the bill.

My vote is "don't care" because it will get tossed. If one of the elements of this "law" is to give g'ment agents (police, etc.) the ability to stop and search someone on the sole basis of what they look like is against the 4th Amendment.

You need probable cause someone is committing a crime to search them (even ask for ID). Looking at someone's race or ethnicity as the sole reason for suspicion is an unreasonable standard even pretty absurd.

Like I said before, first of all I said "if". Meaning the premise of my post based on supposition having not read the specific language but general descriptions. Got it now (since you didn't bother reading the first time as usual)???