Bilingual USA?

[Jagger69]

OK....here I go again with another semi-controversial topic....

So I'm on the road in California this week....sitting at a hotel sports bar near the airport in LA. Half the people who work there and half of the patrons are Hispanic. No problem with that....hell I live in fucking Texas for God's sake. I personally have no problem with Mexicans or anyone else of Hispanic descent in any fashion. In fact, Latina women are the most beautiful on earth as far as I am concerned (at least when they are young and before they get fat and grow moustaches ). Anyway, this patron sitting next to me and the bartender (a Hispanic guy who also speaks perfect English) are rapping (ooops....maybe I shouldn't refer to "rap" in fear of offending some of you thin-skinned rap-lovers out there but, hey, that's possibly fodder for another thread maybe, right? ) and they are going on in Spanish (a great deal of which I understand but don't speak so well). Eventually, I ask the patron "hablas ingles?" to which he immediately replied, "oh, hell yeah". We then got involved in a discussion about the predominance of native Spanish speakers continuing to use Espanol as their primary language here in the USA when, quite obviously (yes?), English is the official language (isn't it?) of the USA. His reply was that it was a matter of ethnic pride....that Hispanics did not want to see their language "die" like the Italians, Germans, etc did when they emigrated to the USA many decades ago. They wish to keep their language heritage alive, he said, by continuing to speak Spanish whenever and wherever they could to achieve that goal....in fact, to make Spanish the secondary "official" language of the USA.

Every other ethnic group who has previously come to America (like the aforementioned Italians and Germans, etc) has been assimilated into the "melting pot" as we like to call it here. We all come from diverse backgrounds but, in the end, no matter our ethnicity, in the end we're all just English-speaking Americans....period. At least that has been the pattern until recent years with the significant influx of Hispanic immigrants coming to this country (and can we PLEASE not turn this into an illegal immigration thread? Thank you!).

I'd like to get a gauge on how the rest of my fellow Yanks feel about this Espanol-preservationist attitude that this particular gentleman relayed to me tonight. Personally, I have mixed feelings about it. I don't get particularly upset about people speaking Spanish in a widespread manner out amongst the general public but perhaps that is because I can understand most of what they are saying. I think it's cool that I can understand another language but, in the final analysis, I think that anyone who emigrates to the USA should learn to speak English....especially if they hope to prosper in a business sense. But, it really doesn't upset me to hear Spanish being spoken on a routine basis by those who wish to do so. However, my wife hates it....she always thinks that they are saying derogatory things about her behind her back or whatever because she doesn't understand a word that they are saying. Paranoia strikes deep in that instance. We tend to be fearful of that which we do not understand.

My question, therefore, is....should Spanish be adopted as the "second" official language of the USA? In many ways, it seems that it already has been.

OK....enough of my bluster. Any comments to add from any of my esteemed (or despised for that matter) Freeones brethren?

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

Technically, I don't think America has an official language. English is the de facto official language, but the government hasn't passed anything to make it so.

I think America should stay the way it is. I don't know much about it, but I assume that outside of places like California and Texas, there are not a heavy amount of Hispanics. I don't see the need to have the government create an official bilingual state when the majority of these immigrants can speak English in the first place. This isn't exactly French Canada and English Canada.

 

[feller469]

not a fan of making it "official". that said, when i lived in Europe, I was amazed at how many people were at least conversational in multiple languages. to this day, when i hear someone speaking English with an accent, I ask where they are from. If I know a little of the language, I try some conversation with them in their national language.

To me, it broadens my horizons and don't understand all the resistance to learn a foreign language. that said, we don't need to bog down Congress and the national media with a smokescreen issue like a secondary official language.

 

[jod0565]

"Press 1 for English, press 2 for Spanish."
Where's "Press 3 for Japanese, press 4 for German."
In a sense, Spanish is already the second languge of the US.
I do believe English is the most spoken language in the US, thereofore, I agree that English should be learned by immigrants - no matter what country they are from.
If I moved to Japan or Russia, I would learn those languages to communicate better in my "new" country.
I think it shows some respect to do so - that you are willing to learn that country's language.

 

[Skyraider22]

Technically, I don't think America has an official language. English is the de facto official language, but the government hasn't passed anything to make it so.

I think America should stay the way it is. I don't know much about it, but I assume that outside of places like California and Texas, there are not a heavy amount of Hispanics. I don't see the need to have the government create an official bilingual state when the majority of these immigrants can speak English in the first place. This isn't exactly French Canada and English Canada.

Well I can see what you are saying here I'm assuming you ive up North Plasma because Tennessee and some other Souther states carry a large population anyway I have always thought English was the official language or at least if you look at any geography book and look up the U.S.A. it says official language English but to answer the question Jagger posted is I think it is understood I mean that Spanish is the second language because it is spoken so much on some job sites in Tennessee they even have people speak spanish for the Hispanish workers.I don't think it should be a second official language to me it is like this the U.S. official language is English with other lanuages spoken such as Spanish,German,French,Italian,Chinese,and indigenous languages but that is just me by the way great thread:thumbsup:

 

[YumiYumi_1988]

I think I agree with the having to learn English part. My parents came from Cuba but you'd never know it from speaking with them. It is a downside tho cuz I had to learn Spanish the hard way. As far as making Spanish an official language, you could run into problems with the 'What about us' crowd who'll argue that if we add Spanish, others could (and perhaps should) follow.

 

[Mayhem]

English only at the Poker table. Speak whatever you want everywhere else.

that said, when i lived in Europe, I was amazed at how many people were at least conversational in multiple languages.

Until some guy comes along who only speaks English and it's time for "Spot the American."

We have a very significant Mexican population where I live, and the end result that I see is that the gringos pick up some spanish into the daily lingo. I like it, it shows respect. One of the first things i had someone teach me when I moved here was how to say "Good Luck" (Buenas Suerte). I'm a casino employee, it comes in handy.

And I don't think I'm that far off topic when I say this. There are Hispanic families in Texas and California who were living there before they were Texas and California. This is their country too.

 

[Facetious]

OK....here I go again with another semi-controversial topic....

Nice reading, Jag. :hatsoff:

To help develop a better understanding of what exactly is going on, I strongly urge you to review the following links and make your own call, a little reading between the lines couldn't hurt.
Let me be clear ! I don't believe that all Mexicans are radicalized (axtlanists if you will) to the point that they would catalyze an eventual ground battle on United States of America territory in order to facilitate their ends, however, they seem to be making steady progress over the years. Just why these activists want to ''reacquire their barrio'' just to turn it into another extension of Mexico, a 3rd world government wealthy cesspool, I don't have the slightest idea.

Anyway, you asked about why a segment of the Mexican population insists on speaking spanish in America ...

Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán (MEChA) - this appears to be the most radical, almost what I would call modern day followers of che guevara

national council of la raza (national council of the race)

league of united latin americans (lulac)

brown berets - how do you like the little 'clenched fisty' on the url ?

IMO, The aforementioned non profits are very much mexican separatist groups, they are very well organized throughout the mexican communities e.g. the high schools, the colleges, the workplaces as well as on the streets. Recruitment is easy because most newer Mexican arrivals into America, that is, arrivals from yesterday going back to the 70's (both illegal as well as legal naturalized) seem to believe that Mexico comes first above all else. European and or UK immigrants coming to America from times past were so eager to assimilate into America that they would resign themselves of the surnames ! that's quite a contrast from what we have on our hands today.


additional info, fwiw Snopes - Hispanics speak out

 

[Facetious]

But, it really doesn't upset me to hear Spanish being spoken on a routine basis by those who wish to do so.

Whenever I hear the spanish language spoken, it's as if the two parties are shouting at each other, :eek: anybody else find this to be true ? ;P

However, my wife hates it....she always thinks that they are saying derogatory things about her behind her back or whatever because she doesn't understand a word that they are saying. Paranoia strikes deep in that instance. We tend to be fearful of that which we do not understand.

Paranoia ? that's a bit much, maybe they are saying stuff about your wife, you do understand how awful women are treated in the poorer segment of the Mexican culture ... yes ?
Is there even such a thing as womens rights in mexico ?

 

[Petra]

I'm on the flip side of this equation. I'm an American who's native language is English and I have 4 years of spanish from school living in the Netherlands. People do speak english here, but ALL OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS are in Dutch and I'm REQUIRED BY LAW to learn dutch.

Honestly, I think this is how it should be in the US. All immigrants must pass a test to prove their basic understanding of English as well as our history (have to do it in Dutch too) and all official documents should be only in one language...English.

 

[Philbert]

Most non-Americans have no idea how many Spanich only peons there are here.
Ya see, the VAST majority of Spanish only folks are mostly poorer working class slobs who can't do well in Mexico, so they slip across the border illegally and work shit jobs or shit-paying (now) good jobs and have no desire to be anything other than mexicans who don't have to live there. Until they make lotsa Dinero and can go back as a wealthy Mexican and pay shit wages to other poor Mexicans.
I meet lotsa 2nd gen Mexicans who A) don't speak Espanol and B) get annoyed when I speak it to them.
The average illegal is an embarassment to the Americans who are of Mexican or any other Hispanic descent...they are insulted if you think they need to speak Spanish 'cause they don't do Englais too well.
A Granny who never learns English is rare in the US...among legal immigrants or multi-gen Americans who are Hispanic descent.
A Momma who speaks 3 words of English is common among illegals...they don't need English skills due to the overpussification of the West and it's "Let's feel sorry for the disadvantaged Brown brothers" attitude.
If ya can't handle the American society, stay home and fix Mexico.

 

[lurkingdirk]

I have often encountered an argument about this which I find confusing:

One nation, one language.

All my family and so many friends live outside the U.S. and we are confused by this attitude because it seems to celebrate a lack of education. ?? Why would you be proud of being fluent in only one language, and why would you look down on someone who can speak more than one?

Further, why must it be that someone who speaks another language is clearly not as patriotic as a native English speaker? Does that extend to someone from England, who speaks English with an accent? Then how about someone with a Southern accent, are they more patriotic, or are they better Americans than someone from Minnesota who sounds like they are from Canada? This is a tricky issue, one that involves prejudices, misconceptions, and anxieties.

While I am not in favour of nationalizing languages, I do believe that every government needs to adopt one or two. The government needs language to function, and all forms and such should be printed in that language/those languages. If you become a citizen of any country, there is endless paper work to read and sign, I would hope that one would familiarize themselves with the language enough to get at least a basic understanding of what (s)he is signing.

(An aside - one of the funniest encounters I have ever had the good fortune to watch was at an academic conference in Michigan where a man from Northern England [with a very heavy accent] was trying to communicate with a man from Texas [with a heavy accent and a lot of colloquialisms]. They were both speaking "English," but they just gave up eventually.)

 

[LukeEl]

What if you live in Switzerland, where my dad is from. He used to yell at me and my brother in 5 different lanuages when the mood struck him. Now that I look back at it...that shit was pretty funny especially when I was stoned.

 

[Philbert]

I have often encountered an argument about this which I find confusing:

One nation, one language.

All my family and so many friends live outside the U.S. and we are confused by this attitude because it seems to celebrate a lack of education. ?? Why would you be proud of being fluent in only one language, and why would you look down on someone who can speak more than one?

Further, why must it be that someone who speaks another language is clearly not as patriotic as a native English speaker? Does that extend to someone from England, who speaks English with an accent? Then how about someone with a Southern accent, are they more patriotic, or are they better Americans than someone from Minnesota who sounds like they are from Canada? This is a tricky issue, one that involves prejudices, misconceptions, and anxieties.

While I am not in favour of nationalizing languages, I do believe that every government needs to adopt one or two. The government needs language to function, and all forms and such should be printed in that language/those languages. If you become a citizen of any country, there is endless paper work to read and sign, I would hope that one would familiarize themselves with the language enough to get at least a basic understanding of what (s)he is signing.

(An aside - one of the funniest encounters I have ever had the good fortune to watch was at an academic conference in Michigan where a man from Northern England [with a very heavy accent] was trying to communicate with a man from Texas [with a heavy accent and a lot of colloquialisms]. They were both speaking "English," but they just gave up eventually.)

Where do you get that silly concept?
No where have I ever read or heard anyone espouse not knowing other languages...most people are impressed with multi-language people.
But speaking Spanish only is the same as speaking English only and living in Germany.
Every one I ever knew outside the US learned some or a lot of the language of the country they were in, and I have known many Americans who spoke 3 or more languages.
Illegal immigrants who only speak Spanish are looked down upon, and rightly so.
English is the historic and common language of the US, and other countries.
I have had people ask me to translate Cockney before, but an accent is a minor obstacle to communication.
I only use Spanish and English now, so I'm losing my other languages I used to speak...but linguistic skills are a choice not a need for most Americans.
Living in a 3 or 4 border country it makes sense to speak 2-4 languages.

 

[Will E Worm]

It is English. When don't need any other language.

Learn our language or leave.

"Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or leave the country." Theodore Roosevelt

Technically, I don't think America has an official language. English is the de facto official language, but the government hasn't passed anything to make it so.

Of course, you don't. :tongue:

It's English and always should be.

 

[Red Spyder]

English, even if it's not the official language, is the de facto predominant language, the language used in the courts or when doing contracts of any kind whether it's bussiness or otherwise, and the language that the founders chose over German back in the day. Being of Mexican origin myself, I do speak Spanish, in fact, that's one reason I got my job because I can communicate with Spanish-speaking clients fluently. What I just don't agree with is refusing to assimilate to this country that has kindly accepted us as their citizens and with trying to make it more like the country we just left. If I wanted to live the way I lived in Mexico, I'd go back. If people around here want to keep speaking in their native language, like around the home or with their friends, that's fine by me, in fact, people who speak more than one language, whatever that language may be, seem to have an advantage over those who do not.

 

[Lust]

i don't think there's a need for an "official" language. if you're living in the USA then english is advisable else you limit yourself to being successful.

if you want to get ahead in business in the states you better get a firm grasp on english due to its prominence in all areas capitalism. it's like an expansion on smith's "invisible hand". to refuse to grasp english in the USA is to tie your own hands. certainly some people have prospered without learning it but thats not very common. i have a pretty awesome job that pays extremely well and i know i wouldn't have this job if i spoke spanish only. my parents and grandparents had the foresight to understand this. learning two languages isn't rocket science either, nor is learning three languages, its just how much effort and dedication you put towards it.

my great-grandparents had to learn english on the fly. they emphasized learning english to my grandparents because they knew it was the only way to get ahead at that time. my parents learned english just as most of us did and by the time i came around english was the default language.

with english as the prominent language in our family now, my parents still emphasized learning a second language and more if possible. if you read some of the euro pornstars biography it's impressive to see that a lot of them speak several languages. its not that hard really and i highly recommend it. but as for me and my family we generally speak english and i don't think we've lost anything as far as our ancestry is concerned.

the sum of all knowledge is not locked into one language and in a lot of sayings, phrases, proverbs there's a lot that's lost in translation. to not speak english in the USA is to be left out on a lot of things. to only speak english in the world is to be left out on a lot of things as well.

this is why i'm about to teach myself klingon

 

[Facetious]

They wish to keep their language heritage alive, he said, by continuing to speak Spanish whenever and wherever they could to achieve that goal....in fact, to make Spanish the secondary "official" language of the USA.

Oh, I'm sure his tongue was planted firmly ... you know where when he said that, after all, nobody wants the second spot. :2 cents:

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

I have often encountered an argument about this which I find confusing:

One nation, one language.

All my family and so many friends live outside the U.S. and we are confused by this attitude because it seems to celebrate a lack of education. ?? Why would you be proud of being fluent in only one language, and why would you look down on someone who can speak more than one?

Well, like I said, it isn't really Canada down there. Bilingualism works here in Canada because we are a country that was colonized by both the French and English, and as a result we have French and English Canadians who were born and live in our country, and who have had family who lived here for generations. In America, bilingualism can't work (in my opinion) because it is foreigners coming into the country and choosing to speak their own language. If you live in America, you should have to become American, whether it is Mexican-American or simply an American, and part of that is learning to speak the language that approximiately 250 million Americans speak as a first language. Because, and the Mexicans can trust me on this one (assuming they can read it), the Americans aren't going to go out of their way to learn Spanish.

 

[mrtrebus]

:dunno: