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Despicable and Repugnant Fascism by guess who

titsrock

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
^ Is there ANYTHING that this administration can do wrong ?
What is it, do you feel that you would be giving the republikans an edge if you were to dare disagree with Obamunist policy ? Can't there be two wrongs don't make a right ? :confused:

Why are you assuming that they've done anything WRONG already? Why can't we, as a Nation, give this administration a chance for their policies to actually WORK, before we condemn them...:dunno:

The majority of Americans voted to move away from tax cuts and spending cuts as the foundation for American Economics in 2009 and beyond.

It took Big Business exactly 10 years to destroy itself (if we situate the beginning of the downfall with the intro of Gramm/Leach/Bliley in 1999).

We need to move faster than 10 years to fix our economy. :dunno:

What kind of business spark is going to be needed to turn the economy around, btw? Have you thought about that one? We seem to be stalled out with Microsoft and the Internet. The Internet seems to have moved into technologies that require people spending money to use. Well, that's kind of not the right technologies needed now.

We don't manufacture anything and Conservatives want Bankruptcy for all companies in trouble--nevermind that Bankruptcy opens the door for MORE FOREIGN OWNERSHIP....:dunno:

Too many people have lost their minds today and can't let things *work*.

These are complex solutions to complex problems.

It's not like all that we need to do is call up the cable company and yell at someone in Bombay to fix our TV signal....:dunno: Major solutions to massive problems don't work on "Starbuck's Time"....
 

Facial_King

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
This seems like as good a time as any to post this great video of how The Free Market and its ideological defenders operate in America (and elsewhere) - remember The Clapper?

http://www.markfiore.com/clapper_0
 

maildude

Postal Paranoiac
Bush should have thought of this idea back when he was taking all of that oil money from the Saudis. Boy those Arab folks are sure hard workers!!
 

Dean Wormer

Tip: install a spycam in your toilet.
C'mon...once this system is locked in place, you don't think the next step will be some form of legislation that eventually will control all business structure in the US...the business that's still here, anyway.

Hell no. The only business' that will get bailout money are those that are deemed too big to fail. Also that most of the big boys are run properly and not the way the morons at AIG and the other financials were.
 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
Despicable and Repugnant Fascism by guess who

What did you expect? :dunno:

The Obama Administration:
Firestarter_Emote_by_Probocaster.gif
Celebrating the demise of Freedom and democracy to the tune of "We are the Champions... of the World".

This is not a Democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic. :hatsoff:
 

Facetious

Moderated
^ I wonder if the bush stimulus checks (remember) are retro active in the sense that, hey ! everybody cashed their stimulus check, therefore, the gumment owns the right to regulate our payscale.

READ THE FINE PRINT people !!

I make mention of this "conspiracy theory" so that it doesn't actually happen :rofl2:

If it does, I said it first ! :p
 

CunningStunts

I changed my middle-name to Freeones
It's pretty obvious at this point that Obama and the Dems running Congress have used this "economic crisis" to further a leftist agenda of more Federal government with, so far, very little to no payoff on the money spent. (money that we don't have FYI...)

It's all about control, and leftists really do believe that a powerful central government controlling most aspects of society is a good thing (though history has shown that believe to be erroneous man, many times).
 

Shindekudasai

If I had a my Freeones account, I would have just gotten 25 points!
This is not a Democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic. :hatsoff:

Will E, do you even know what you said there? I mean, the actual meaning of these words?


@CunningStunts:
Let's not start making generalizations with the whole "leftist + central government = anti-democracy/socialism" formula. France for a example has a strong central government (much stronger than Germany or the US). Nonetheless their current administration is rightist-conservative and their democracy works just fine. Less federalism and more central government don't automatically mean socialism.
 

Facetious

Moderated
I hate all of this comparative nonsense "well this nation has "_____________" form of government and the people over there like it / or "it works for them". Maybe they don't know any different. Why should we adopt the principles of a foreign government when we already have a Constitution ?

Oh, that's right, they're progressives, screw that old archaic Constitution,
we're now a nation of artists, social workers and "environmental managers" . .
you know, the things that really produce. :rolleyes:

[ :sing: ]
No Dark Sarcasm In The Classroom !

We don't need no education
We dont need no thought control !
No dark sarcasm in the classroom !
Teachers leave them kids alone !
Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.
[/ :sing: ]


You were warned. The camel's nose is in the tent now.
:D :crash::helpme:
 

Legzman

what the fuck you lookin at?
I already don't get paid shit, so whatever he wants to do is fine by me! If I even get 5 more cents an hour I'll be happy. Just knowing that its pissing off the big wigs at my company! I hate corporate america. Bunch of greedy fucks! Don't pay their workers shit so they can live an over indulging and overly lavish lifestyle. While the ones who make them all their money live pay check to pay check. Its quite nauseating if you ask me. So the governmetn making companies pay their employees more is all good!!!
 

Facetious

Moderated
Don't take government bailout money if you don't want the government telling you what to do. It's not hard to figure out.

Hypothetical -

A left leaning CEO on the last leg of his /her corporate tenure, making risky - reckless business decisions knowing well in advance that when their firm goes into the financial toilet, they'll opt for a bailout a day before they resign. Impossible ? Of course they're going to go the route that compliments their political party.

That's not hard to figure out.

It sounds like a sure medium for the governments' eventual annexation of private business.

These guys have all of the angles, C'mon.

Oh well, off to read more about this piece of crap legislation . . .
. . built solely upon the greed factor. :helpme:
 

Dean Wormer

Tip: install a spycam in your toilet.
Hypothetical -

A left leaning CEO on the last leg of his /her corporate tenure, making risky - reckless business decisions knowing well in advance that when their firm goes into the financial toilet, they'll opt for a bailout a day before they resign. Impossible ? Of course they're going to go the route that compliments their political party.

That's not hard to figure out.

It sounds like a sure medium for the governments' eventual annexation of private business.

These guys have all of the angles, C'mon.

Oh well, off to read more about this piece of crap legislation . . .
. . built solely upon the greed factor. :helpme:

You're making an assumption that this company would even be offered "bailout" money. The only reason the current crop of companies got bailout money is because they were deemed "too big to fail" and their failure would have extremely far reaching effects. Also you're insinuating that some business plans are to fail so bailout money can be acquired. That is just plain asinine.
 

Facetious

Moderated
The only reason the current crop of companies got bailout money is because they were deemed "too big to fail" and their failure would have extremely far reaching effects.
I understand but do you really think that it's going to stop there ?
Sounds like bailing out a cartel, "too big to fail".

Also you're insinuating that some business plans are to fail so bailout money can be acquired.
Why not, just bring in a Robert Nardelli


Also, this administration is making it sound as if "exorbitant executive comp" plays a major role in this economic downturn, Nonsense ! It's a convenient distraction as they rile up an anti capitalist sentiment.
 

Shindekudasai

If I had a my Freeones account, I would have just gotten 25 points!

Aaah, I see.
Ok, it's gonna get complicated now. Nonetheless I will try to keep it short and simple. Everyone who doesn't want or need this explanation and just wants to read on about the repugnant fascist Obama, skip this posting.

The writer of this article (sadly a PhD which proves to me once again, that in the US almost everyone can get a PhD...but that's another story...) has some serious faults in his argumentation. His terminology is all screwed up, so to speak.
The basic principles of the typology of states are as follows.
First, you determine, whether it is a "monarchy" or a "republic". In a monarchy, the head of state rules his entire lifetime and/or is in fact a monarch. Everything else is called "republic". Thus, of course, the United States are a republic, but so is China. On the other hand, Japan is a monarchy. You get what I'm hinting at? The words "republic" or "monarchy" don't explain the actual "quality" of the state (democratic, authoritarian, totalitarian,...).
So, secondly, you have to make further distinctions. Has the state a constitution, a written code of law? That means, is it a constitutional or a non-constitutional state. There have been (and may still be) peoples (like the Aborigines in Australia or the Ainu in Japan), who were incorporated into a nation-state and had no written constitution of their own and thus could have been seen as "non-constitutional states" at that point in time, but there currently are no sovereign nations without a written constitution. Every sovereign nation today is a constitutional state. That does not mean, that every system is in fact constitutional in the sense that a democratic rule of law applies. Take a look at China, where we still have an authoritarian regime on the verge of totalitarianism. Or take a look at Ethiopia or the Democratic Republic of Congo. They may have a constitution, but hardly anyone follows its rules.
Now that we have stated, that the US are a republic and have a constitution, we may say, that the US are a constitutional republic. But so is China. Now, the author of this article furthermore states, that the US are not a democracy. And here his knowledge fails him. Because he has to make further distinctions and you have to know the history and the development of the term "democracy". It's as if I was saying, that you are an animal, because you are not a plant, but at the same time I'm denying you the status of human being, because I don't know the difference between mammals and amphibians. You know what I mean? You have to read the fine print and you have to know the history.


First, he fails to make the distinctions between democracy, authoritarian dictatorship and totalitarian dictatorship (that means to read the fine print).
A democracy means
- the constitution is steadfast (rule of law)
- the organisation of the governmental/governing system is pluralistic (that means the ways to create a political decision are not one-dimensional, but ramified, complex and influenced by many people, for example the voters, the political parties, the non-governmental organisations (like Green Peace, the Catholic church or the NRA for example), and so on)
- the structure of the society is heterogenous/inhomogenous (that means everyone is an individual of his own within the confines of the law through free press, freedom of expression, free choice of religion, consumer freedom, etc.)
- the legitimation of the ruling system is autonomous (that means, that the will of the people is not pre-defined by the government and is not declared "objectively identifiable or knowable", but is complex, multilayered, manifold and is to be expressed by the people, and thus the will of the people constitutes the power in the state)
By this definition, the US may have some deficits (and some of them the author states), but is clearly not just a constitutional republic (like China), but a democracy (unlike China).

Secondly, he fails to recognize the historical development of the term democracy.
Aristotle was one of the first ones to use the word "democracy". He said, that a democracy is a bad form of government. But that was because in his times, democracy meant "mob rule" (what is called "Ochlokratie" by scholars and scientist). And in his times (as far as Aristotle goes), the mob had no idea how to conduct politics. For him, politics should be conducted by noble men (aristocrats, farmers, warriors), not by slaves, foreigners, women, etc. The best form of state was the "Politie", followed by aristocracy and monarchy. He condemned democracy, oligarchy and tyranny. Many intellectuals till the end of the Middle Ages thought that way, until since then certain people (like Machiavelli, Hobbes, Locke, Montesquieu, Rousseau, Kant, Hamilton/Madison/Jay, Tocqueville, Mill, Weber, Sartori, Fraenkel, Luhmann, Habermas, Offe, Young, to this day) or certain events (like the French, the American and the German revolutions or the dictatorships of Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin) proved their theories wrong. At the end of the 19th century, we assumed that a democracy was a good form of government. And at the end of the 20th century, we knew that a democracy was a good form of government. But when the part of Constitution the author refers to was written, this rethinking had not fully happened yet, because most countries of the world the newly born US despised were monarchies and had not constitutions written by the people. So for the founders of your "Great Nation", it was important to state in the consitution, that the US was a "constitutional republic". Well that had a more ideological meaning than a scholarly or legal one. Legally, the US is a democracy. Scholarly, the US is a democracy. And when the constitution of the US was written, there had been no authoritarian dictatorship in the recent past and no totalitarian dictatorship at all. The "dark ways" of non-democratic and non-monarchic tyranny/dictatorship were unknown to this people. Thus the term "constitutional republic".

The article is overly not very scholarly, I may add. For example, the author uses frequently the term "mobocracy". Well, that's a colloquial term and has no business being in a scholarly/scientifical article, essay or treatise. The correct term for what he means would probably be anarchistic-democratic Ochlokratie (anarchistisch-demokratische Pöbelherrschaft), not "mobocracy". And saying, that the US are on their way to becoming a anarchy-like mobocracy is a gross exaggeration. There is however a tendency (already under Nixon and especially under George W. Bush) towards authoritarian democracy. But that seems to be en vogue at the moment, as other countries like Italy experience the same thing.
 

E-Ann-Hilden

I changed my middle-name to Freeones
With all the super lobbyists, corportate welfare, tax breaks, low corporate taxes in the U.S. for big business. Due to a recession they are shedding jobs and now on the government dole due to poor business practices.

I am not excited about the U.S. government intervening, but they gladly took the blank check in the TARP program. I doubt the U.S. taxpayer will see any benefit other than higher taxes down the road and a bigger defecit.

I kind of thought is was the other way around!
 

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E-Ann-Hilden

I changed my middle-name to Freeones
C'mon...once this system is locked in place, you don't think the next step will be some form of legislation that eventually will control all business structure in the US...the business that's still here, anyway.

Locked in place? Wall Street and major banks gladly took the funds in a form of a blank check. Do you think that it would be free of eventual strings attached? I dont think the U.S. governement is interested in running those companies at all. They just want to end this poor management run amok and boom/bust cycles.
 

E-Ann-Hilden

I changed my middle-name to Freeones
Oh that's right, frame it so that it's not socialism. But heroism. That Republicans are evil and the "fuzzy bunny-treehuggers" are the heroes.
Anyone has the right to denounce legislation that alienates what the US what built upon. Frankly from the moment this crap started, I smelled something fishy, and it wasn't Obamas ass. It was his sweeping revolutionary need to fasttrack one world agenda.

Yeah I said it, you can't see it?

The Obama Administration:
Firestarter_Emote_by_Probocaster.gif
Celebrating the demise of Freedom and democracy to the tune of "We are the Champions... of the World".


Do you listen to Hannity, Levin, Wilkow or Rush? They are spewing chatter on how bad the Dem's are and how the Obama adminstration is a failure from the start.

They have some good points, but it just sounds like sour grapes that they cant get there way now, even though they ran the show for 6 years.

I am placing blame on both parties in some degree. But the way things have been in place since 2000, has clearly not worked. 2 Recessions in 8 years is not a great track record.
 
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