Fom Dwight Eisenhower to Dick Cheney, a 180° turn for the Republican Party

[Johan]

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. . . . This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.

Dwight Eisenhower ; April 16th, 1953

Turn around the whole trend with the United State military, that ought to be our top priority for spending. Not food stamps, not highways, or anything else.

Dick Cheney ; July 14, 2014


Within 60 years, Republicans have become the very opposite of what they used to be. They now stand for things that are the very opposite about what they used to stand for.

 

[MustBeGood]

^^^^

Cheney's think tank group before W won the 2000 election: http://www.antiwar.com/orig/stockbauer1.html

 

[sean miguel]

This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.

Eisenhower goes on to say "Is there no other way the world may live?" Human history says NO. There will always be bad characters who will take your olive branch (which is what this speech was) and shove it up your ass.

The primary and constitutional duty of the federal government is to "provide for the common defense", not to build schools, highways, or grow wheat. Eisenhower's speech was not the sentiment of the Republican Party and the cold war actually worsened under his tenure.



But you know what has changed? The party of Henry Jackson and JFK who understood the threat America faced (communism) as opposed to to their modern day version who are more concerned with being politically correct.

 

[xfire]

But you know what has changed? The party of Henry Jackson and JFK who understood the threat America faced (communism) as opposed to to their modern day version who are more concerned with being politically correct.

Remind me, what was the threat America faced from communism?

 

[Jagger69]

In all fairness, I do not believe that Dick Cheney is the official spokesman and conscience of the republican party. He is (much like $arah Palin), a loose cannon who does his party much more harm than good. His time is passed and he is an old man in poor health so....just shut up, Dick. I'm sure the party leaders (on second thought, does the republican party have any iconic "leaders" that could draw a consensus) would like for him to just retire and resume shooting his hunting buddies in the back or some similar activity.

It is idealistic to believe that we could forgo a strong military budget to build more schools and such but the reality of today's geopolitical situation calls for the USA to carry a very big stick indeed, unfortunately. We've already conceded the space race to Russia (shameful....we have no means by which to put astronauts into earth orbit!). If we concede the military race (Putin has definitely thrown down the gauntlet), then we are finished as a free nation since, as A-Fox already mentioned, "to provide for the common defense" is the very essence of our ability to maintain that freedom. It is imperative that we present a more formidable posture (without invading sovereign nations without just provocation) as a military power on the world stage. Like it or not, that is the role we have accepted as the leader of the free world and we would be derelict in that responsibility to not maintain a strong military.

 

[sean miguel]

Remind me, what was the threat America faced from communism?

Nothing. It was all just a big misunderstanding. Like Rocky Balboa said after beating Ivan Drago "If I can change, and you can change, EVERYONE can change!"

 

[xfire]

Nothing. It was all just a big misunderstanding. Like Rocky Balboa said after beating Ivan Drago "If I can change, and you can change, EVERYONE can change!"

I'll bet you sweated that reply out over the course of several hours. How many replies did you start and end up deleting halfway through because you realized your answer sucked? While I appreciate 80's pop culture references, I actually saw Rocky 4 at the theater when it was released, that's a cop-out reply. I'll give you the Cuban Missile Crisis, that was an imminent danger, but other than that, name some specific threats America faced from communism.

 

[sean miguel]

I'll bet you sweated that reply out over the course of several hours. How many replies did you start and end up deleting halfway through because you realized your answer sucked? While I appreciate 80's pop culture references, I actually saw Rocky 4 at the theater when it was released, that's a cop-out reply. I'll give you the Cuban Missile Crisis, that was an imminent danger, but other than that, name some specific threats America faced from communism.

That was a bit cheeky wasn't it? And not like it matters, but I didn't mull my reply over several hours, I was inspired to write that almost immediately (and writing something that sucked has never stopped me before). It was my incredulousness (is that a word?) at your question. But you asked a sincere question and I should've had the courtesy to reply in kind. Sorry. How was communism a threat to America?

Instead of specific threats (9/11) I was thinking more grand scheme (global jihadism). The Soviets (and their world-wide communist movement) were a huge threat to America during the Cold War, hence the bomb shelters, the arms race, the 1972 Men's Olympic Basketball team. The Cuba Missile Crisis was a definite flashpoint that almost went hot but how many ICBMs were pointed at our cities from right off our coasts throughout the Cold War? And communism itself as an ideology is antithetical to basic American principles - personal liberty, private property, limited government etc. So as a competing world view that was spreading worldwide by belligerence or subversion, it was a threat. And was it Stalin who swore to destroy capitalism? As well as communist manifesto itself. And who is the bastion of capitalism?

President Kennedy saw the threat that worldwide communist expansion posed to American security particularly in the western hemisphere and he took steps to reign it in. Some a success and some not so much (bay of pigs).

 

[xfire]

How was communism a threat to America?

Instead of specific threats (9/11) I was thinking more grand scheme (global jihadism). The Soviets (and their world-wide communist movement) were a huge threat to America during the Cold War, hence the bomb shelters, the arms race, the 1972 Men's Olympic Basketball team. How many ICBMs were pointed at our cities from right off our coasts throughout the Cold War?

And communism itself as an ideology is antithetical to basic American principles - personal liberty, private property, limited government etc. So as a competing world view that was spreading worldwide by belligerence or subversion, it was a threat. And was it Stalin who swore to destroy capitalism? As well as communist manifesto itself. And who is the bastion of capitalism?

Either side could have simply disengaged and the entire cold war would have died, but instead we engaged in UN police actions in Korea and Vietnam and smaller actions in dozens of other places around the world, and in the final analysis, for what? What did we truly accomplish in our decades long cold war with the Soviet Union? You paint the picture of an aggressive Soviet Union, but, they were told the same thing about us, propaganda on both sides, when the truth was actually somewhere in the middle. Yes, they were on nuclear standby for most of the fifties, sixties, seventies, and eighties, even though they knew we had much further advanced missile technology, they were as scared of us as we were supposed to be of them. I'm not really sure what your point about the '72 Olympic Basketball team is supposed to be, everyone always guns for the United States, even in sports we don't give a fuck about, that's just the nature of being the big man on campus.

Why should we give a rising fuck what ideology any other nation chooses to practice within their own sovereign boundaries? Communism was a failed ideology from its beginnings, it's not hard to see why, there's no incentive for excellence, and there was certainly no reason to feel threatened by it. We've lived in a mixed economy for decades, pure capitalism is just as inherently flawed as communism there's got to be balance for an economy to function. There's no reason to feel compelled to export our ideology, values, and principles, and there never was, but there is big money in massive "defense" contracts, even when there's no real enemy to defend against.

 

[sean miguel]

Either side could have simply disengaged and the entire cold war would have died, but instead we engaged in UN police actions in Korea and Vietnam and smaller actions in dozens of other places around the world, and in the final analysis, for what? What did we truly accomplish in our decades long cold war with the Soviet Union? You paint the picture of an aggressive Soviet Union, but, they were told the same thing about us, propaganda on both sides, when the truth was actually somewhere in the middle. Yes, they were on nuclear standby for most of the fifties, sixties, seventies, and eighties, even though they knew we had much further advanced missile technology, they were as scared of us as we were supposed to be of them.

You mention Korea. If that's not the starkest of examples why the Cold War was fought. Compare the two Koreas today. The Soviets had reason to fear us but for different reasons, we were more technologically advanced than them. But I think we had more reason to fear them. History is witness to what happens when communists win the day - reeducation camps and murder en masse.

 

[sean miguel]

Fuck, this has gotten way off topic. Sorry, OP. Carry on :hatsoff:

 

[xfire]

You mention Korea. If that's not the starkest of examples why the Cold War was fought. Compare the two Koreas today. The Soviets had reason to fear us but for different reasons, we were more technologically advanced than them. But I think we had more reason to fear them. History is witness to what happens when communists win the day - reeducation camps and murder en masse.

Why should we have stopped the communists in Korea from taking over the country? There's no way to know if they could have, and even if they did, how was that a direct threat to the United States?

Do elaborate on why we should have been afraid of communists. There has been an American communist party since 1919 http://www.cpusa.org/ and they've certainly been of no political consequence in all that time. Even at it's peak, the Soviet Union wasn't strong enough to attempt an invasion of the United States, so we were under no real threat of them landing on our shores and storming the beaches. There was only saber rattling, and there was really no need for any of it except to maintain a common enemy, real or imagined.

 

[Johan]

History is witness to what happens when communists win the day - reeducation camps and murder en masse.

True but do the US have a mandate to make sur it doesn't happen. Where is it written that the US are some kind of "Wold's Cops" ?
There are numerous examples in which the US have acted as so and, in the end, made things worse than they were before they intervene (think about Iraq in 2003 and Iraq in 2014) or the very people they trained finally turned against them (think about Afghanistan in 1982 and Afghanistan in 2001).

 

[Jagger69]

Communism represents a threat to the USA's own imperialistic desires and therefore must be eradicated from the equation like it was a swarm of cockroaches. That way, we can continue to exploit other nations for our own political and financial benefit under the guise of things like "freedom" and "liberty".

True but do the US have a mandate to make sur it doesn't happen. Where is it written that the US are some kind of "Wold's Cops" ?

It is the role we have ascended to by default and, until someone can successfully dethrone us, we will remain so for the reason I just outlined. We will steamroll anyone who gets in our way.

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

Dick Cheney is a low life and should live the rest of his days in a pain amplifier.