General Motors closes its door soon !

[lovejoy]

Does GM bankruptcy loom?

Merrill Lynch predicts General Motors may close its door soon.

http://www.wheels.ca/reviews/article/268427

Will General Motors sells the entire company to another German company?

Or will General Motors chops up into pieces and retain the financial arm GMAC and cut the Operational Division to the German?

What will that affect tens of thousands of retirees and 72,000 GM employees left behind?

Does that mean the demise of American automobile industry?

Should Detroit just raises the white flag and allows Japanese Toyoto to dominate American automobile industry.

General Motors stock dropped to a 54 year record low !

 

[amstrad]

Does that mean the demise of American automobile industry?

Should Detroit just raises the white flag and allows Japanese Toyoto to dominate American automobile industry.

Where have you been for the last 10 years? This has already happend.

 

[Friday on my mind]

I'm missing something.Where is the close the door's mentioned.Bankruptcy is something very diifferent.Chrysler was bankrupt but got a bail out.GM is too big to fail as they say.Govt will take steps to not allow that at least they will try.American car companies are in big trouble for sure though.They were short sighted and only thought of the profits of the next quarter while other companies like Toyota have always taken longer view and are now in much better position product wise to meet what people want.But the trucks and SUVs were the things that generated the bigger profits so the US companies just kept going the way they were.Now they are way behind.

Edit: I need to add I doubt any german company would want it.Mercedes dumped chrysler basically because of costs the health care obligations Chrsyler has to current and former employees.Now some investment group owns Chrysler,ya gotta think they think they can breal the obligations somehow and make money with Chrysler otherwise I can't see them getting the kind of return on investment they would expect.The Big 3 all know the health care costs are a major hinderence to them and actually went to Bush looking for help about a year and half ago.He of course since he opposes universal govt health care like all the other countries have has little options available to help.All those other countries spend 1/2 per capita what we do on health care and its not tied to your job.That gives those country's companies big advantage cost wise.

 

[titsrock]

This has been going on since 1994. GM/Ford/Chrysler have been either 2 steps behind or they turned left when the industry leaders (The Japanese and Germans) went right.

I've always felt that, for the most part, American quality has been better-than-reputation goes but American design is actually worse than the reputation goes. There is not a single decent car in the American portfolio that isn't being clowned by 3 or 4 competitor products. Only the Corvette and the Mustang can "hold their own" in the marketplace. Every other American car is a distant 4th or 5th option in the marketplace.

In "Big Picture" terms...GM/Ford/Chrysler will all declare bankruptcy before they sell out to the Euros or the Japanese. The Big 3 will go to Congress with tears in their eyes and empty pockets flapping in the wind and ask for a bailout. The precedent for American bailouts has been set with Bear Stearns, it's being drawn up now for Bank of America/Countrywide and the rest of the Mortgage Lenders, the Airlines are apparently calling in their lobbyists to float the idea of a bailout in 2009....it only makes sense that the Big 3 Auto companies will now decide "it's safe" to go on their knees to Congress.

What's Congress going to do? Turn their backs on American business and Capitalism? Not likely to happen.

Congress will agree to a bailout on a few conditions..namely, the cease/desist of all SUV production in 2009, the closure of Buick/Pontiac/Mercury/Lincoln...and an industry agreement on the development of some new alternative fuel system. The American Auto industry is going to have to work a little more like a gov't funded Oligopoly...

 

[member979979]

the closure of Buick/Pontiac/Mercury/Lincoln

I was just thinking about this the other day while watching T.V. up comes Tiger Woods kissing ass for Buick (and you know dam well he does not drive a Buick). How many different kinds of cars do we need that all look the same?

Its like with Coke and Pepsi, how many different new brands of Coke does it take to make it not taste like Coke?

 

[titsrock]

^^^Yes he doesn't drive a Buick except when he shows up at a tourney. Then again, he may just ride in limos to tournaments. He didn't even bother to show up at his own tourney this week....yes I know he's recovering from surgery but he still could've showed up. What else does he have to do at the moment?

I think GM and Ford have to pare down their product portfolios considerably. It is unconscionable to think that the Big 3 have been caught "off guard" by the Oil/Gas run up at the pump. I distinctly remember in 1998, Bill Clinton made raising CAFE standards an issue, in order to get the Big 3 thinking about being more efficient and economical, and the Repub Congress, with the Big 3 Lobbying, defeated Clinton's attempts. That still should've been a watermark moment for them to say to each other "We need a high-efficient car solution in 10 years"...

I feel there is a lot of self-inflicted pain with the Big 3...but I want the Executives to take the hit, not the line workers and retirees who did their job well...

 

[D-rock]

I'd be more sad if there were any more jobs left to lose. If I was the government I think I would just take it over before I gave any bailout this time, or I would let them die if they couldn't stomach that.

 

[lovejoy]

Close the door means GM actually will close 4 major plants that makes SUV and trucks within next 12 months.

Also there are GM plants still running 3 shifts but may cut back to two or one shift.

As far as Covette goes, don't make me laugh. General Motors only makes less than 100 Covettes a day back in 1995-1996 when I was there.

I had a tour at the Bowling Green Covette Plant back then and discussed in detail with the Plant Manager. 100 Covette a day is not going to make much money for GM ! Now Bowling Green is further cutting back to less than 100 Covettes a day !

 

[Funkwerkz]

Good bye, GM! I'm very thankful for your contribution to automobile industry and the world economy for the last 50 years.

We can see now that the American economy is really rely on service sector. Manufacturing function is imported in the US. This is just sick. How can a country like the USA can live without any kind of industry? If GM really goes to the dusty pages of history books, others will follow GM.

Stop manufacturing in China and/or India! Low cost labour force kills local and quality labour force. USA is feeling this now, Western Europe will feel this within 15 years at most.

 

[maildude]

The Big Three didn't learn a fucking thing from the Seventies.

 

[Friday on my mind]

Close the door means GM actually will close 4 major plants that makes SUV and trucks within next 12 months.

Also there are GM plants still running 3 shifts but may cut back to two or one shift.

As far as Covette goes, don't make me laugh. General Motors only makes less than 100 Covettes a day back in 1995-1996 when I was there.

I had a tour at the Bowling Green Covette Plant back then and discussed in detail with the Plant Manager. 100 Covette a day is not going to make much money for GM ! Now Bowling Green is further cutting back to less than 100 Covettes a day !

Your right low volume vehicles like the Corvette are not going to help them at all.Same thing with the other big 3 outfits.Bet the mustang especially the high horsepower ones are going to be discontinued or at least sell in very low amounts.

The Big Three didn't learn a fucking thing from the Seventies.

They reflected the country in large measure I think.We wanted and bought what they were selling and just figuered something will come along that makes it possible to not have to just use less of things like oil or pay much higher prices for it.It's a country of very faithfull types.:bowdown:

 

[georges]

I don't think GM will die nor disappear, they have already strong selling models. Anyone claiming that Buick or Pontiac are going to disappear is wrong.
Mercury sales were not that big however they still sell and have sold the luxury grand marquis in big numbers. Oldsmobile disappeared in 2003 because its models were overaged and not perhaps responding to the demands of the American customer. The biggest mistake of America was to accept importing Japanese vehicle and authorizing the Japanese to build manufacturing plants in the USA.
GM owns euro brands with Saab and Opel. Ford owned Jaguar (now belonging to some indian group) and Volvo and it also owned Aston Martin.
I don't think many people like econo shitboxes made in japan or in france.

 

[lovejoy]

I don't think GM will die nor disappear, they have already strong selling models. Anyone claiming that Buick or Pontiac are going to disappear is wrong.
Mercury sales were not that big however they still sell and have sold the luxury grand marquis in big numbers. Oldsmobile disappeared in 2003 because its models were overaged and not perhaps responding to the demands of the American customer. The biggest mistake of America was to accept importing Japanese vehicle and authorizing the Japanese to build manufacturing plants in the USA.
GM owns euro brands with Saab and Opel. Ford owned Jaguar (now belonging to some indian group) and Volvo and it also owned Aston Martin.
I don't think many people like econo shitboxes made in japan or in france.

Southfield, Mich.–General Motors Corp., battered by the slowe st U.S. sales market in 15 years, faces the possibility of bankruptcy and may need to raise as much as $15 billion (U.S.), a Merrill Lynch & Co. analyst said.

The "dramatic drop-off" in sales probably will continue through 2009, forcing GM to find additional funding, analyst John Murphy, who cut the Detroit-based automaker's shares to "underperform" from "buy," said in a report.

"Bankruptcy is not impossible if the market continues to deteriorate," the report said.

GM, which hasn't earned a yearly profit since 2004, fell $1.77, or 15.06 per cent, to close at $9.98 in New York trading, the shares' lowest close since Sept. 13, 1954.

GM is short of cash flow, almosts 15 billions dollars short. But the issue is consumer confidence in GM and GM products in this high price gas war.

General Motors is hardly selling its own vehicles even in North America--Mexico and Canada and very poor performance in Europe and Asia.

The issue is will General Motors followed the path of Chrysler in the late 1980's with stocks fell to "several cents" and beg Uncle Sam for bailout and eventually sold to the Germans and came around back to America.

This Presidential Election has so much on the fate of GM including Ford and Chryler and all other industries. GM has one of the most efficient car plant in Ontario, Canada which offers free universal health care to all its citizens including GM workers and its retirees. If Obama and Clinton and Congress get together and pass the Universal Health bill (at least 18 months after getting into office), it will cut most of the big companies health care liabilities especially the American workers are getting much older (Japanese transplants in America hire American workers at least 20 years younger than Big 3 workers and they prefer to locate in rural America except one of the earlier car plant Mazda which is located in Detroit (Ford has 20% stock in Mazda then)

Impala is selling like hot cake but GM must make drastic changes NOW to fight the Japanese and German to make eco-friendly efficient cars. Most of the us here never understand the biggest market in automobile is in China in next 10 years. America will cut 10 million cars on the road but the demand for small efficient cars in China will rise into over millions and millions and GM is in China making cars but GM has to compete against the Euro for the market.

It is a global economy and GM failed poorly in both domestic and overseas sales. GM is being taken over these two quarters by Toyoto in domestic sales but GM is just not willing to fight face to face against the Japanese.

But in 1990's, Satan is opened in middle Tennessee as a symbol of efficient American small cars and located across from Nissan plant. What does Satan do for GM to boost the sales in small efficient cars? Nothing !

The way I see it is GM is spiral downwards into the pathway of Chrysler and no longer able to compete globally against the Japs and German.

The other major problem is China already open shops in America but it will take them 3, 5, 10 years to push their products into American car dealership.
Just like the Korean cars, the Chinese will face consumer confidence and poor quality and services and will have to compete against the Euro, Japanese, Korean in the American market. But will they able to sell $9,998.00 car in America as entry level cars?

The final issue is known to all of us. The gas price is NOT going to come down and no one is spending $100 dollars to fill up those tanks. GM existence remains uncertain in the future !!!

 

[bigbadbrody]

Japanese cars are better than any American car

 

[lovejoy]

Are you willing to buy your next car/truck/SUV made by the BIG THREE to save jobs and
the future of America?

Or is it too late?

 

[Member2019]

Actually, there are choices ... but people don't know them ...

Are you willing to buy your next car/truck/SUV made by the BIG THREE to save jobs and
the future of America?
Or is it too late?

I just bought a 4-cylinder small SUV from Jeep.
My brother-in-law bought a 6-cylinder small SUV from Toyota.
My friend bought a 4-cylinder small SUV from Honda.

The Honda is having all sorts of mechanical problems not even into 15,000.
The Toyota is doing fine, but gets less than 20mpg.
My 4-cylinder, American made SUV gets the best gas mileage of them all, over 30mpg highway, and has had 0 problems.
This American made SUV design is much newer than any Honda or Toyota design (or any from the other, Big 2 either).

In fact, even my brother-in-law and friend agree it's the best of the three in features and ride.

Sooner-or-later people are going to realize that outside of a few Honda models, their line is going to crap.
They have fucked up some of their excellent designs, and even a few, former Honda engineers I know (who went to Toyota) agree.

Toyota is a good company as well, but they also shifted their line 6-7 years ago to SUVs and are paying some of the same prices as the Big 3.
Although Toyota has a more fuel efficient car line than the Big 3, so that saves them quite a bit there.

The engineering lifecycle prevents auto manufacturers from switching overnight.
Prototypes done 5-7 years ago are just hitting production now, and prototypes started just 2-3 years ago won't hit for another few years.

There are choices.

But because the Big 3 have their advertising up their ass and can't market worth a fuck ("like a rock" -- give me a break!), people don't know about them.
Only some of the local dealerships seem to have decent advertising campaigns based on gas mileage.

 

[bigbadbrody]

this just proves that japanese made cars are better than american made cars

 

[senob44]

this just proves that japanese made cars are better than american made cars

what exactly proves that? That is the perception of much of the general public, and may have even been true at one time, but I think the playing field has been leveled in the past decade.

 

[BlueBalls]

Hasnt it been close to closing down for years now, let the beast die, no need to fight until the end its just pathetic.

 

[LBP 76]

GM will eventually declare Chapter 11 so they can tear up their ridiculously bloated union contracts and thusly cut their production costs greatly. They will also cut the Buick and possibly the GMC lines. Pontiac may not be safe either.

But even if they eventually die, Americans will still buy cars and they will demand that they be built in America. But US factory workers are going to have to kiss elaborate benefits and job guarantees goodbye if they want to compete. The days when U.S. unions held huge bargaining power are over.