Good job, Governor Paterson! NY governor commutes prison sentence in fatal shooting

[z9102]

Re: Good job, Governor Paterson! NY governor commutes prison sentence in fatal shooti

the difference is that horn was unaware of the situation before he came upon it.
he saw men in the act of a robbery.
he shot them to protect the property.


white knew of the situation beforehand.
he lied in wait and literally executed the kid.
and was the kid even committing a crime at the time?
going to someones house and arguing is not a crime and to prevent any possible crime all you have to do is go in the house and call 911.
the situation would have been stopped by doing that.
at best he was trespassing, and that would be only if the whites told him to leave the property at some point.

the cases are similar but not the same.

Correct, the cases are quite different.

With Joe Horn it wasn't his property so he had even less of a justification to use lethal force than White did. Furthermore, the burglars were in someone else's house and Horn told person on the phone that he was going to get them anyway.

With White though, a number of kids showed up to his house with weapons and threatened him and his son on his property.

Therefore he was well within his rights to defend himself and his son. Horn however, had no legal justification to do what he did.

 

[Rey C.]

Here's to John White. Newest member of the "Good Guys Club"

I would not have done what John White did.







































When confronting a threatening mob of thugs, I would have used my AK-47 with the drum magazine. Much more effective! :hatsoff:

Here's a song that we used to sing when I was a kid.

:sing:
This land is my land
This land ain't your land.
I've got a shotgun and you ain't got one.
If you don't get off, I'll blow your head off.
This land is private properteeeeeeee!

Merry Christmas everybody!

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

Re: Good job, Governor Paterson! NY governor commutes prison sentence in fatal shooti

I think there was a lot both parties could have done to prevent this tragic conclusion. The initial claim that Aaron White had left a msg on myspace or something that he wanted to rape some white girl at a party is what led to the hostilities. This later turned out to be a hoax as someone hacked into his account and let's be honest who would write down on a public social networking page that they intended to rape someone, if he had said it verbally it might have been believable but it seems Daniel and his friends took what they read on a social networking site as fact which was their first mistake. Secondly driving up to someones house in the middle of the night making loud threats and posturing can scare the living daylights out of anyone, could White have known that this mob didn't have weapons on them or in their car and were simply making idle threats we don't know. White himself who illegally owned that gun could've just stayed indoors and called the police and then only acted if they attepted to force entry, saying that even when he went out armed the mob had ample opportunity to leave and they didn't. Then we get the part where White says he accidently shot Daniel whilst he attempted to grab his gun whilst Daniels friends say he did nothing of the sort, obviously both sides will say what suits their case and we'll probably never know the truth. In cases as ambiguous as this in the US I guess the homeowner always gets the benefit of the doubt and who am I to say whether that's right or wrong.

If that's the case then I don't know WTF Rey is bitching about. If nothing else, Rey tried to call me out because I supported Horn (who LEGALLY owned his weapon), who killed two ILLEGAL aliens, and said he gives gun owners a bad rep. :dunno:

(And I apologize Rey if in fact this guy owned his firearm legally.)

 

[Rey C.]

Danny Cicciaro had been in trouble before - but he won't get in trouble again.

I thought the rule in the states was you can do what you want to people once they're on your property although it probably differs from state to state. And Joe Horn kills two people on a neighbours property and doesn't serve a day in jail, hard to believe both cases are from the same country.

Unfortunately, we don't have a federal law which deals with the defense of one's private property. So each state has different laws. And even within states, there are different laws dealing with possession of firearms in each locality. In my locality, you can openly carry a firearm as long as it's not concealed. If it is concealed, only then you must have a concealed carry permit. But if you want to walk around with a six-gun on your hip (in plain view) or an AK slung across your shoulder, you can do that. Not many people do, but it is legal. You can't "brandish" the firearm, but carrying it anywhere other than a federal building or a school is not an issue. And if someone crosses a private property boundary, unless they were invited on the property by the homeowner, they are by trespassing (by definition of our state laws). Years ago, you had to post a "No Trespassing" sign every so many feet along your boundary - no longer is that the case.

In my state, if someone enters your dwelling, their life is pretty much in your hands at that point: do what you will. Outside the dwelling, being that you have every right to be armed and outside on your own property, the law will still favor you (depending on your locality within the state). But more of the burden will be on you to prove that you were in fear for your life or safety, if you use deadly force. Course if it's a mob of thugs, who have ALREADY stated that they're coming to your home to do harm to you and/or your family, you'd have your burden of proof right there... on a silver platter.

I think my state and locality have a pretty good balance. I wouldn't want to live in a place where some whack job plays Dirty Harry and shoots people who aren't on his property, even if they're committing a (non-violent) crime somewhere else. But if a bunch of low life thugs showed up on my property, looking to do harm to one of my family members, I would definitely call the cops... just as I slammed in that 100 round drum and headed out the door. And I would ask them this question: how fast can you shit-kickers run? Nobody knows? OK, let's find out. You guidos get a five second head-start before I flip the safety off on this monster. :eek:

From what I've read and seen on TV, Danny Cicciaro had been in trouble before. I don't know much, but I do know this: he damn sure won't get in trouble again, will he? So let that be a lesson to other little tough-guy, wannabe thugs. Mess with a man's family on his property... and You Might get your dumbass stretched out, looking at the ceiling of a church from a wooden box for eternity! :thumbsup:

I just love Christmas stories that have a happy ending. :surprise:

 

[Ulysses31]

Re: Danny Cicciaro had been in trouble before - but he won't get in trouble again.

From what I've read and seen on TV, Danny Cicciaro had been in trouble before. I don't know much, but I do know this: he damn sure won't get in trouble again, will he? So let that be a lesson to other little tough-guy, wannabe thugs. Mess with a man's family on his property... and you might get your dumbass stretched out, looking at the ceiling of a church from a wooden box for eternity! :thumbsup:

I just love Christmas stories that have a happy ending. :surprise:

From what I saw of White from the news clip I posted he seems genuinely remorseful about shooting that young man. He's an elderly man not full of bravado like some youngsters and if the gun he has was something passed down from his grandfather then maybe that shows he had little interest in guns as surely he would've gone out at got himself something better legally. I assume he is also some sort of professional to have moved to a good home in an affluent neighbourhood so I can't seen any reason or motive for him to execute that man in cold blood. It's easy to criticise his actions in hindsight but the sight of a drunken gang of white youths in front of your property threatening your wife and son can lead to unimaginable fear and when scared or in defensive mode you can't expect to be able to think rationally, they brought trouble to his doorstep not vice versa and they had ample opportunity to leave. They both have differing views of how the shot was fired but who would you believe between a professional and sober elderly man and a group of youngsters who go looking for a fight in the middle of the night and were drunk which could have affected their recollection of the incident. And no mention of the girl who made the rape claim then later recanted it, I see a silly little girl who tried to tarnish the name of White Jnr (maybe to set up these hostilities) or have the thrill of getting a group of men to rush to her aid that has escaped any sort of punishment watsoever.

 

[Rey C.]

Re: Good job, Governor Paterson! NY governor commutes prison sentence in fatal shooti

If that's the case then I don't know WTF Rey is bitching about. If nothing else, Rey tried to call me out because I supported Horn (who LEGALLY owned his weapon), who killed two ILLEGAL aliens, and said he gives gun owners a bad rep. :dunno:

(And I apologize Rey if in fact this guy owned his firearm legally.)

If he'd had an illegally converted AK, a hot gun he bought off a street corner or he was a convicted felon in possession of a firearm, I could give you that one, Scotty. But the "illegal firearm" in question had been inherited from his grandfather. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that it was his failure to register the inherited firearm which made it illegal.

It's funny to see (make-believe) "conservatives" supporting a tactic used by gun-grabbers: onerous and unconstitutional state and local registration laws, which have long been used to deny American citizens their 2nd Amendment rights. So if I left the P-38 that's been in my family for almost 70 years to my cousin in New Yawk, if he didn't register it, it would then become an "illegal firearm"... and the New Yawk gun grabbers would seize it and melt down a near priceless weapon from WWII.

I tell ya... one second Scott is singing the praises of right-wing(nut) darling Michele Bachmann, and the next thing I know he's holding hands with Chuckie Schumer and Barney Frank. What is this world coming to?

 

[Rey C.]

Re: Danny Cicciaro had been in trouble before - but he won't get in trouble again.

From what I saw of White from the news clip I posted he seems genuinely remorseful about shooting that young man. He's an elderly man not full of bravado like some youngsters and if the gun he has was something passed down from his grandfather then maybe that shows he had little interest in guns as surely he would've gone out at got himself something better legally. I assume he is also some sort of professional to have moved to a good home in an affluent neighbourhood so I can't seen any reason or motive for him to execute that man in cold blood. It's easy to criticise his actions in hindsight but the sight of a drunken gang of white youths in front of your property threatening your wife and son can lead to unimaginable fear and when scared or in defensive mode you can't expect to be able to think rationally, they brought trouble to his doorstep not vice versa and they had ample opportunity to leave. They both have differing views of how the shot was fired but who would you believe between a professional and sober elderly man and a group of youngsters who go looking for a fight in the middle of the night and were drunk which could have affected their recollection of the incident. And no mention of the girl who made the rape claim then later recanted it, I see a silly little girl who tried to tarnish the name of White Jnr (maybe to set up these hostilities) or have the thrill of getting a group of men to rush to her aid that has escaped any sort of punishment watsoever.

Excellent post! :thumbsup:

As for the female in question, I believe Gia Jordan said it best: "Whores lie." :2 cents:

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

Re: Good job, Governor Paterson! NY governor commutes prison sentence in fatal shooti

If he'd had an illegally converted AK, a hot gun he bought off a street corner or he was a convicted felon in possession of a firearm, I could give you that one, Scotty. But the "illegal firearm" in question had been inherited from his grandfather. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that it was his failure to register the inherited firearm which made it illegal.

It's funny to see (make-believe) "conservatives" supporting a tactic used by gun-grabbers: onerous and unconstitutional state and local registration laws, which have long been used to deny American citizens their 2nd Amendment rights. So if I left the P-38 that's been in my family for almost 70 years to my cousin in New Yawk, if he didn't register it, it would then become an "illegal firearm"... and the New Yawk gun grabbers would seize it and melt down a near priceless weapon from WWII.:

Rey, I was merely pointing out a bit of hypocracy in your post. :2 cents: I'm all for handing down weapons that have been in the family forever, and I never said I wasn't. It's just that this story has a lot of holes in it, and Ulysses noted the firearm was illegal.

Believe it or not, Rey, I've been in a very similar situtation back in high school with the Royal Cambodian Bloods who threatened to pull firearms on me and my buddies in HS, and I've felt threatened enough multiple times before as well (auto break-ins, thugs trying to get all gangster with it). I know for a fact they would not be easy on me if I pulled my dads .38 on a little thug piece of shit breaking into my property.

I won't carry on with you about this matter, but recall I said Horn's behavior was excessive. Nevertheless the matter involved a couple of fucksticks you would'nt let within a hundred yards of your house, let alone shake their hands. I'm simply not going to weep for them. :tongue:

 

[Rey C.]

Re: Good job, Governor Paterson! NY governor commutes prison sentence in fatal shooti

Rey, I was merely pointing out a bit of hypocracy in your post. :2 cents: I'm all for handing down weapons that have been in the family forever, and I never said I wasn't. It's just that this story has a lot of holes in it, and Ulysses noted the firearm was illegal.

I won't carry on with you about this matter, but recall I said Horn's behavior was excessive. Nevertheless the matter involved a couple of fucksticks you would'nt let within a hundred yards of your house, let alone shake their hands. I'm simply not going to weep for them. :tongue:

I'm not sure where you're seeing "hypocracy" on my part... or hypocrisy either. But I think I've been quite clear (and consistent) about where I stand on these issues. I am a big believe in private property rights. I'm also an NRA Life Member... and have been for probably as long as you've been alive. In short: it is up to me to take care of me and mine on my property. Unless someone else is in my employ or I've appointed them as my agent, no one else (other than law enforcement) has any business playing John Wayne or Dirty Harry on my property, no matter what is happening on my property. Whether they mean well or not, they have no more right to be firing shots at criminals on my property than the criminals who might be breaking into my house. Call the police or let me deal with it. But shoot over here and I might not realize that you're trying to do a (bizarre) good deed... and it's more than likely that I'd launch a .300 Magnum into your chest before I realized that you weren't shooting at me. :nono:

So I'll say again, that gun that White had was illegal, not under any constitutional, federal statute in existence, but only because of the Chuckie Schumer/Sarah Brady/Michael Bloomberg gun laws that dominate the People's Republic of New Yawk. I believe Black Talons are illegal for private ownership in New York too. But if I lived there, and I was forced to use deadly force to defend my family, the coroner would most certainly be digging three of them out of some dumbass's chest... if I believed he posed ANY sort of threat to me or mine. Garonteeed!

Your logic is typically twisted and confused. So let's be clear: I have no sympathy for the people that Joe Horn shot. My objection was to his use of deadly force in a situation that was none of his business and on property that was not his own. You can be a Chuckie Schumer fan if you want to, and defend NY gun laws that put excessive restrictions on gun ownership, so that law abiding citizens won't be able to own firearms. Even the BATF is prohibited (by law) from establishing or maintaining a database of gun owners in the United States. So me, I don't recognize such laws as being valid. And with each passing decision, the Supreme Court of the United States is agreeing with me. :hatsoff:

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

Re: Good job, Governor Paterson! NY governor commutes prison sentence in fatal shooti

I'm not sure where you're seeing "hypocracy" on my part... or hypocrisy either. But I think I've been quite clear (and consistent) about where I stand on these issues. I am a big believe in private property rights. I'm also an NRA Life Member... and have been for probably as long as you've been alive. In short: it is up to me to take care of me and mine on my property. Unless someone else is in my employ or I've appointed them as my agent, no one else (other than law enforcement) has any business playing John Wayne or Dirty Harry on my property, no matter what is happening on my property. Whether they mean well or not, they have no more right to be firing shots at criminals on my property than the criminals who might be breaking into my house. Call the police or let me deal with it. But shoot over here and I might not realize that you're trying to do a (bizarre) good deed... and it's more than likely that I'd launch a .300 Magnum into your chest before I realized that you weren't shooting at me. :nono:

So I'll say again, that gun was illegal, not under any constitutional, federal statute in existence, but only because of the Chuckie Schumer/Sarah Brady/Michael Bloomberg gun laws that dominate the People's Republic of New Yawk. I believe Black Talons are illegal for private ownership in New York too. But if I lived there, and I was forced to use deadly force to defend my family, the coroner would most certainly be digging three of them out of some dumbass's chest... if I believed he posed ANY sort of threat to me or mine. Garonteeed!

Your logic is typically twisted and confused. So let's be clear: I have no sympathy for the people that Joe Horn shot. My objection was to his use of deadly force in a situation that was none of his business and on property that was not his own. You can be a Chuckie Schumer fan if you want to, and defend NY gun laws that put excessive restrictions on gun ownership, so that law abiding citizens won't be able to own firearms. Even the BATF is prohibited (by law) from establishing or maintaining a database of gun owners in the United States. So me, I don't recognize such laws as being valid. And with each passing decision, the Supreme Court of the United States is agreeing with me. :hatsoff:

Yeah, they are, with cases such as DC v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago, they are becoming more relaxed on the issue. These were not overwhelmingly decided by the majority, however (I think both cases had a deciding vote of one), but we are going to have to make sure we don't get a bunch of activist justices, which is one of the best reasons, in some ways, to vote for a president nowadays. Obama has already appointed two (or is it three?) pretty radical justices.

So I think you are misunderstanding me. I am not disagreeing with most of what you have been saying here, just that we're having somewhat of a communication breakdown. :2 cents:

 

[meesterperfect]

Re: Good job, Governor Paterson! NY governor commutes prison sentence in fatal shooti

Correct, the cases are quite different.

With Joe Horn it wasn't his property so he had even less of a justification to use lethal force than White did. Furthermore, the burglars were in someone else's house and Horn told person on the phone that he was going to get them anyway.

With White though, a number of kids showed up to his house with weapons and threatened him and his son on his property.

Therefore he was well within his rights to defend himself and his son. Horn however, had no legal justification to do what he did.

i think your mindset is clouded by some sort of predjudice but .........

both were excessive force fer sure.

horn was unaware of the situation until he was in it.
he was witnessing a crime in progress , whether the crime was against him or not is not relevant.

white on the other hand knew of the situation beforehand.
he waited outside gun in hand and murdered the guy.
thats is first degree murder all the way.
did the kid get physical? no
no assualt.
did the kid try to steal or enter the house?
no.
so what crime was commited here by the kid?

stopping 2 guys from ransacking a house and stopping someone from knocking on your door are very different.

and forget horn, this case has nothing to do with that.

the guy knew they were coming to start shit.
if youre concerned about safety you lock the door and call the cops and hope they come and help.
that would diffuse the situation at least for some time.
you dont wait outside and shoot the fucking guy in the face.

the only reason i can see for someone condoning this is for some kind of racial predjudice or guilt complex they have.

 

[John_8581]

Re: Good job, Governor Paterson! NY governor commutes prison sentence in fatal shooti

I'm not sure where you're seeing "hypocracy" on my part... or hypocrisy either. But I think I've been quite clear (and consistent) about where I stand on these issues. I am a big believe in private property rights. I'm also an NRA Life Member... and have been for probably as long as you've been alive. In short: it is up to me to take care of me and mine on my property. Unless someone else is in my employ or I've appointed them as my agent, no one else (other than law enforcement) has any business playing John Wayne or Dirty Harry on my property, no matter what is happening on my property. Whether they mean well or not, they have no more right to be firing shots at criminals on my property than the criminals who might be breaking into my house. Call the police or let me deal with it. But shoot over here and I might not realize that you're trying to do a (bizarre) good deed... and it's more than likely that I'd launch a .300 Magnum into your chest before I realized that you weren't shooting at me. :nono:

So I'll say again, that gun that White had was illegal, not under any constitutional, federal statute in existence, but only because of the Chuckie Schumer/Sarah Brady/Michael Bloomberg gun laws that dominate the People's Republic of New Yawk. I believe Black Talons are illegal for private ownership in New York too. But if I lived there, and I was forced to use deadly force to defend my family, the coroner would most certainly be digging three of them out of some dumbass's chest... if I believed he posed ANY sort of threat to me or mine. Garonteeed!

Your logic is typically twisted and confused. So let's be clear: I have no sympathy for the people that Joe Horn shot. My objection was to his use of deadly force in a situation that was none of his business and on property that was not his own. You can be a Chuckie Schumer fan if you want to, and defend NY gun laws that put excessive restrictions on gun ownership, so that law abiding citizens won't be able to own firearms. Even the BATF is prohibited (by law) from establishing or maintaining a database of gun owners in the United States. So me, I don't recognize such laws as being valid. And with each passing decision, the Supreme Court of the United States is agreeing with me. :hatsoff:

Rey, please get your facts right. It was Congressman Carolyn McCarthy who supported the Brady Bill, from the 4th Congressional of New York, and she has made it her priority to make illegal weapons a priority. New York State, along with the state of New Jersey, have the highest amount of illegal weapons entering the United States. As such we have the toughest gun laws.

Yes, she was elected to Congress in 1997. Representative McCarthy lost her husband during the Merrilon Avenue massacre on The long Island Railroad. Her son was injured by an insane black man, Colin Ferguson, who unloaded two rounds into the train. Ferguson killed six people and wounded 19 others. The gun Ferguson was using was a a unregistered illegal handgun.

Back to the topic at hand, AGAIN White's sentence was commuted. He wasn't pardoned. He goes back to jail to serve out his sentence if he breaks the law again.

 

[Rey C.]

Re: Good job, Governor Paterson! NY governor commutes prison sentence in fatal shooti

Rey, please get your facts right. It was Congressman Carolyn McCarthy who supported the Brady Bill, from the 4th Congressional of New York, and she has made it her priority to make illegal weapons a priority. New York State, along with the state of New Jersey, have the highest amount of illegal weapons entering the United States. As such we have the toughest gun laws.

Yes, she was elected to Congress in 1997. Representative McCarthy lost her husband during the Merrilon Avenue massacre on The long Island Railroad. Her son was injured by an insane black man, Colin Ferguson, who unloaded two rounds into the train. Ferguson killed six people and wounded 19 others. The gun Ferguson was using was a a unregistered illegal handgun.

Back to the topic at hand, AGAIN White's sentence was commuted. He wasn't pardoned. He goes back to jail to serve out his sentence if he breaks the law again.

I think Rey does have his facts straight on Chuckie Schumer... Michael Bloomberg, George Soros and Di Feinstein too, if we also want to bring them into it. So I'm not quite clear on why you're telling me it was a woman, who wasn't elected to Congress until 1997 that supported a law that was passed by Congress and signed into law in 1993, that was leading the charge on the Brady Bill. I know of the woman that you're talking about - but she didn't come on the scene until much later. And I am truly sorry for her loss. I'm sure her heart is in the right place. But since grief does funny things to a person, I still question her logic (on this issue).

I don't know if your claim about New York and New Jersey having "the highest amount of illegal weapons entering the U.S." is true or not. I do have to question your "facts" now, since it was you who already made at least two false statements in this thread: that John's White's son had "planned on raping" some girl and that John White blew this poor lil fellow's face off with a shotgun. Neither of those statements was true. Now, as for these "illegal weapons"... what exactly are we talking about here? Are we using the (actual) BATF definition or are we using the typical gun-grabber definition of an illegal weapon: any functioning firearm that has not been melted down and is in private hands? Which one are you using??? Pardon me for saying so, but it sounds to me like you're going with the Chuckie Schumer definition. Cause unless you can provide some verifiable objective evidence that post-1986 production Uzis, MP-5's, Mac 10's and 11's, or any other foreign produced firearms which fit the BATF definition of "restricted firearms", are being smuggled into New York and New Jersey more than any other state... I ain't buying it. Sorry. What you folks have up there is a people problem. I say this because there are probably more privately owned firearms within a 10 mile radius of me than in all of New York City. And even though the population within that circle would be MAYBE 1/10th of what it is in all of NYC, the murder rate is probably less than 1/10th of what it is in NYC. So if we are to blame the firearm, how is it that we have MANY more firearms per capita, but we don't have the violent crime? Well, I'd say it's because we don't have that "people problem" that you folks have.

But with that said, I am sorry for the family of Danny Cicciaro. Maybe his parents are "good people"... or maybe they aren't. I really don't know. But whether they've been good or not so good parents, it's sad for anybody that they ended up with a hot-headed son, who had been in trouble more than once (if the reports are true), and he stormed off on a stupid "mission" to start some shit where, in truth, there was no beef to begin with. So he got his dumb ass stretched out in chalk. That's not something I would wish on any parent. But human history has proven time & time again that stupid people tend to die in the most "interesting" ways. IMO, this is simply another example of that truth.

Could John White have done something different? Absolutely! I'd like for someone to name a situation where there isn't another option? It may not be a good one, but there is always a second, if not a third option. But as a homeowner, I believe that private property rights should afford one the option to let a threatening punk live... or stretch his ass out. As soon as shit-for-brains saw the gun, he should have assumed a non-threatening stance, kept his hands in plain view, rounded up his "posse" and walked away. Had he done that, he'd likely still be alive today (or at least shot by somebody else at a later date). Because if John White had shot him in the back, my feelings would be 180 degrees in the other direction.

 

[Rey C.]

Calorie alert!!!

i think your mindset is clouded by some sort of predjudice but .........

both were excessive force fer sure.

horn was unaware of the situation until he was in it.
he was witnessing a crime in progress , whether the crime was against him or not is not relevant.

white on the other hand knew of the situation beforehand.
he waited outside gun in hand and murdered the guy.
thats is first degree murder all the way.
did the kid get physical? no
no assualt.
did the kid try to steal or enter the house?
no.
so what crime was commited here by the kid?

stopping 2 guys from ransacking a house and stopping someone from knocking on your door are very different.

and forget horn, this case has nothing to do with that.

the guy knew they were coming to start shit.
if youre concerned about safety you lock the door and call the cops and hope they come and help.
that would diffuse the situation at least for some time.
you dont wait outside and shoot the fucking guy in the face.

the only reason i can see for someone condoning this is for some kind of racial predjudice or guilt complex they have.

That's a pretty rich post there, MP. :hatsoff: But so many sugary sweets around Christmas time could send my blood sugar out of sight.

I had no idea you were such a "liberal" fellow, MeesterPerfect. :eek: But I suspect that your "liberalness" is only coming out to play because of the "special circumstances" in this case. Am I right or am I right... or am I right?

A punk communicates a violent threat to a man's family and according to you, unless he hides under the bed in his house, he is a premeditated 1st degree murderer. Yikes, Di Feinstein and Babs Boxer combined couldn't have said it any better. We're gonna have to give you the George Soros/Chuckie Schumer Medal of Freedom today! :rofl:

Being that I've been to some of the firearms forums that I typically creep around during Christmas, to see what new toys are on the market, I've run across this topic on most of them. And here's what I find most interesting. Just like here, I know the characters on those forums who typically have racial hang-ups. I pretty much know what their positions will be on a topic, depending on what race the various players are, BEFORE they make the first post. And as a person who doesn't like surprises, I'm happy to say that I haven't exactly been :eek: by some of the replies in this thread either.

I try to remain consistent, mainly because my memory isn't good enough to be able to switch positions simply based on race, religion or gender. Hell, I might mix myself up, get a severe headache and have to take an aspirin or ten. But while I'm not surprised, I do get a kick out of the people who have no problem with say, Joe Horn, but get their panties wrapped tightly around their testicles about the John White case. Of the two, the only one actually on his own property when the incident took place was John White. "So what is the difference?," I ask myself. Hmm, what could it be? So ...er, not really.

Well, anyway, be sure and tell your old pals back in NJ that if they ever come south and wind up in my area to do some B&E's and thieving, I do not discriminate based on race, color, creed, religion or gender. So if one of your homeys is an Italian guy, one is a Jewish guy, one is a White girl and one is a Black guy... if I catch them on or in this property at night, if posing a threat, chances are all four of them will be still be here the next morning (if ya know what I mean). But you and Rev. Al, members of the Italian American Anti-defamation League (or whatever they're calling it now), Chuckie Schumer, Gloria Steinem and Rabbi Goldstein can all come here and stage a protest march down in the road, in front of my house (after the funerals), if you want to. All of you can sing sad songs and tell tear-jerking stories about what unfortunate childhoods your criminal pals had - and say what a mean, insensitive, uncaring man I am. But three things would still be certain and would not change:

1) Private property rights still mean something to me and the people of this area.
2) The thugs would still be dead as doorknobs.
3) And "lastly but not leastly", I still wouldn't give a flying fuck about stupid people who wind up inside chalk lines. :1orglaugh

 

[z9102]

Re: Good job, Governor Paterson! NY governor commutes prison sentence in fatal shooti

horn was unaware of the situation until he was in it.
he was witnessing a crime in progress , whether the crime was against him or not is not relevant.

white on the other hand knew of the situation beforehand.
he waited outside gun in hand and murdered the guy.
thats is first degree murder all the way.
did the kid get physical? no
no assualt.
did the kid try to steal or enter the house?
no.
so what crime was commited here by the kid?

stopping 2 guys from ransacking a house and stopping someone from knocking on your door are very different.

and forget horn, this case has nothing to do with that.

the guy knew they were coming to start shit.
if youre concerned about safety you lock the door and call the cops and hope they come and help.
that would diffuse the situation at least for some time.
you dont wait outside and shoot the fucking guy in the face.

the only reason i can see for someone condoning this is for some kind of racial predjudice or guilt complex they have.

Joe Horn saw a burglary in progress on someone else's property and deliberately went next door to use lethal force to stop it. He was asked by the 911 dispatcher not to do it, yet did it anyway.

His property wasn't in danger nor was his life.

John White on the other hand knew some kids were coming with weapons to attack his son and possibly him and used lethal force to defend himself and his son.

I'm surprised the NRA isn't defending him.

Oh that's right I know why they aren't.

And I'm sure kids on Long Island now know better than to go harass and threaten other people lest they be armed. Which is exactly as it should be.

 

[meesterperfect]

Re: Good job, Governor Paterson! NY governor commutes prison sentence in fatal shooti

damn rey you sure got me wrong.

as far as race goes i dont consider it in either case.

horn had no right to use deadly force especially since he knew the police were on their way.

white didnt even bother to call the police, or avoid the situation, he just waited outside and shot the guy, again excessive force.

both situations could have been easily diffused without gunshots or death.

thats simply how i feel, i dont see why you read so much into my posts and assumed things that dont exist.

 

[BioDefenseGrad]

Re: Good job, Governor Paterson! NY governor commutes prison sentence in fatal shooti

Sounds like the little racist scumbag got what he deserved. I thought the rule in the states was you can do what you want to people once they're on your property although it probably differs from state to state. And Joe Horn kills two people on a neighbours property and doesn't serve a day in jail, hard to believe both cases are from the same country.

It's state to state. Red states like Texas tend to favor cases like Joe Horn's while Blue states like New York would see him sitting in jail without a governor's pardon.

 

[BioDefenseGrad]

Re: Good job, Governor Paterson! NY governor commutes prison sentence in fatal shooti

Joe Horn saw a burglary in progress on someone else's property and deliberately went next door to use lethal force to stop it. He was asked by the 911 dispatcher not to do it, yet did it anyway.

His property wasn't in danger nor was his life.

John White on the other hand knew some kids were coming with weapons to attack his son and possibly him and used lethal force to defend himself and his son.

I'm surprised the NRA isn't defending him.

Oh that's right I know why they aren't.

And I'm sure kids on Long Island now know better than to go harass and threaten other people lest they be armed. Which is exactly as it should be.

What can they do when the gun was even't registered? On top of that the guy didn't even call the police, so he's doubly screwed as New York has very weak castle laws.

 

[Rey C.]

Re: Good job, Governor Paterson! NY governor commutes prison sentence in fatal shooti

I'm surprised the NRA isn't defending him.

I'm doing the best I can, Z man. I'm doing the best I can... :hatsoff:

Oh that's right I know why they aren't.

Hey now. :nono: Please don't do what I see others doing, and paint us all with the same broad brush, just because you've been told that we're "all a bunch of shotgun wielding, racist rednecks that ride around in pickup trucks and try to bang our female cousins." I'm not a racist (I don't think :dunno. And although I do have several shotguns, I sold my pickup last year. As for the other one, well... there are several very pretty girls in my family. And anyway, I don't see that we need to get off-topic discussing that stuff, do we?! :shy: But read up a bit on Charlton Heston's stance on civil rights back before it was cool for a "conservative" to be in tune with that. He actually marched with Martin Luther King. And well before Heston took a leadership role in the organization, it was the NRA which challenged restrictive gun laws in South Carolina and other southern states, designed to prevent Blacks from owning firearms - which made them much easier prey for neck tie parties. I mean, it's prolly dang hard to lynch a Neeegro if'n his brother shoots you in the balls while your a flippin' that noose o'er the tree branch. Them dang Yankee Nigra-lovers from up north went and fucked it all up by teachin' 'em how to shoot guns! Yep, little discussed fact (as the left has as much shame as the right in playing loose with facts sometimes), during outbreaks of Klan violence in the late 50's and 60's, some White NRA members from the north even traveled to the south and taught Blacks how to shoot and defend their homes against KKK terrorism ("Hold on a dang second, Cleetus! I thought terizm didn't start til them A-rabs from I-rack, where Obama's grandpappy was borned, bombed down the World Trade Center in Hawaii on Dec. 7, 2001 or some such!"). But seriously, like any large group, we have our troubled children. But we're not all bad people. And we're not all crazy (well OK, I'm crazy, but most of the others are relatively sane). And if you look closely, most of what we basically believe is similar to much of what I'm saying here (and what you have said as well): the private property rights of others MUST be respected - whether that private property is a house, a piece of land... or a .32 caliber Beretta that someone's grandfather left them.

And I'm sure kids on Long Island now know better than to go harass and threaten other people lest they be armed. Which is exactly as it should be.

I've done business in most every state in the continental U.S. during my career. And I've lived in a variety of places. But I eventually returned to where I grew up and decided that this is where I'll stay til I go boots up, because it just seems that (for the most part) there is a pretty good balance of "fuck with me on my property and I'll shoot you in the chest" vs. "man, let me know what I can do to help you out" here.

To your point, a kid who grew up here probably wouldn't do what this "John Gotti wannabe" thugster from New York did because: #1) kids from truly good families here still care about bringing shame on their family name. It's probably a weird concept to some people on this board, but around here, that does matter. Why do you think I leave town to do my nasty shit? I could turn this place into a mini Playboy Mansion East if it wasn't for the family guilt complex. And #2) even the oldest codger here has at least a single shot turkey gun at his disposal. Sure, someone like me will lay a fancy/schmancy red laser dot on your chest, talk a bunch of shit and tell you how many rounds a minute whatever I'm holding will shoot and how I dip my bullets in cow shit so even if you escape, you'll die from the most horrible infection... basically just scare you til you shit your pants and piss yourself. But then, unless you make a funny move and get yourself smoked, I'll probably just make you sit down in your own filth while we wait for the cops - while we sing gospel hymns (see, I told ya: I've got some "issues"). But one of those old fuckers, who can't half see once the sun goes down... nah, they might get spooked and simply fire a shot from a 10 gauge magnum in your direction... and then just go back inside the house. If there's blood the next day, then they'll call the sheriff's dept. It really doesn't pay to be a true dumb fuck (like Signor Cicciaro) in this area. Like deer that walk in open corn fields, true dumb fucks don't survive that long in this area - a fact which I am quite pleased with.

So I agree with you (in my own weird way): maybe the junior shit-kickers around NYC will take a page from the book of one dead, dumb Danny Cicciaro and learn to be better, more respectful people. May he rest in peace...

 

[Rey C.]

Oh my. Whatever was I thinking???!!!

damn rey you sure got me wrong.

as far as race goes i dont consider it in either case.

horn had no right to use deadly force especially since he knew the police were on their way.

white didnt even bother to call the police, or avoid the situation, he just waited outside and shot the guy, again excessive force.

both situations could have been easily diffused without gunshots or death.

thats simply how i feel, i dont see why you read so much into my posts and assumed things that dont exist.

Well, if I got you wrong, then I apologize, MP. I've been eating lotsa candy and left-over duck and drinking small sips from "the recipe" jar all day... quite similar to what the Baldwin sisters had on The Waltons, doncha know. Yeah, so maybe I'm not seeing things straight tonight. Then again, maybe I've never seen things so clearly. Hmm, which is it, I wonder? :dunno:

But I know one thing... if we don't do something, this place is gonna be just like Zimbabwe!!! A wise man once said that... and I just know that it's true. :elaugh:

Yeah, I'm drunk, MP. But I ain't that drunk! Deposit 50 cents and try again, old buddy.