GOPers Decrying Obama "Death Panels" Supported Intervention For Schiavo

[GiannaIsMyGod]

GOPers Decrying Obama "Death Panels" Supported Intervention For Schiavo

Four and a half years ago, the Texas Republican wasn't heeding any firewalls. He was one of the lead sponsors of unprecedented government intervention to keep the permanently brain-damaged Terri Schiavo alive.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/14/gopers-critical-of-obamas_n_260027.html

Cons believed that government should intervene in life or death making decision but now they've flip flopped. The hypocrisy.

 

[CunningStunts]

GOPers Decrying Obama "Death Panels" Supported Intervention For Schiavo

Four and a half years ago, the Texas Republican wasn't heeding any firewalls. He was one of the lead sponsors of unprecedented government intervention to keep the permanently brain-damaged Terri Schiavo alive.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/14/gopers-critical-of-obamas_n_260027.html

Cons believed that government should intervene in life or death making decision but now they've flip flopped. The hypocrisy.

Four years ago, Democrats supported demonstrations... now they call the anti-Obamacare demonstrators "agitators" and "un-American."

Politicians from both major parties conveniently flip positions to suit their agendas. The basic problem, without a long discourse on this subject, is that neither major US party has a sound philosophical base from which to work from. They use "issues" to spin people up and get them to support their party at the time.

 

[GiannaIsMyGod]

Who said demonstrators are un-American? Pelosi clearly stated these so-called demonstrators who interrupts town hall meeting and don't let the other said talk are un-american, which is true. Take the wax out of your ears and stop watching Fox News.

 

[CunningStunts]

Who said demonstrators are un-American? Pelosi clearly stated these so-called demonstrators who interrupts town hall meeting and don't let the other said talk are un-american, which is true. Take the wax out of your ears and stop watching Fox News.

I don't watch Fox News or any other mainstream news outlet... THere have been no less than 8 stories in the past week of Democratic politicians decrying the fact that there are people coming to their "townhall" meetings and voicing opinions to the contrary of their agenda.

Don't look at things in left-right or Dem-GOP... they are both wrong.

 

[Friday on my mind]

There are and never was going to be any "death panels".It was pure fear mongering by the likes of Sarah Palin and others.Even leading republicans have said Palin should stop it.They say there is enough to criticize about the plan without making things up.

I think it's striking but not surprising how many people are so uninformed about what is being proposed.I've seen the town halls and these people don't know what they are talking about a lot.And I think they are a sharp contrast to the level of intelligence that was shown by critics of Bush and the war.Even if you didn't agree at least they weren't uninformed.

I'm not really very happy with the changes the dems are talking about,don't go nearly far enough for me just like the right is not happy with it cause they want no change at all .What the dems have proposed is really a middle of the road set of changes and pretty modest.But once again the power of the lobbys coupled with the number of knee jerk right wing reactionarys in this country might mean nothing gets done.

Or in other words Insurance companies win and average american loses.

 

[CunningStunts]

Well, I don't like the term "death panel", but the President's medical advisor does recognize that given a limited resource (e.g., health care), you have to make decisions as to who gets what resources. The real questions is this: Who do you want making that decision?

 

[Rey C.]

Among others, I'm looking at sites like the one below more often. Otherwise, you get pulled into wild rumors and crazy speculation. This is one - there are others. While I don't pay any attention to MSNBC or Fox on this topic, I do look at the one below, Reuters and Bloomberg News (among others).

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/category/health-care-fact-check/

 

[YMIHERE]

Well, I don't like the term "death panel", but the President's medical advisor does recognize that given a limited resource (e.g., health care), you have to make decisions as to who gets what resources. The real questions is this: Who do you want making that decision?

I don't want the insurance company making this decision based on profits.

 

[Facial_King]

I don't want the insurance company making this decision based on profits.

COMMIE!!!!!! Terrorist!!!

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Just kidding. Actually, you make a most excellent point.

Death panels already exist, and they're brought to you by the corporate healthcare industry.

 

[CunningStunts]

COMMIE!!!!!! Terrorist!!!

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Just kidding. Actually, you make a most excellent point.

Death panels already exist, and they're brought to you by the corporate healthcare industry.

And now the government as well.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/death_panel_is_not_in_the_bill.html

Again, it comes down to whether you trust a bureaucrat or a free market solution. Instead of government run panels, how about tort reform and a "patients bill of rights?" I don't know why some folks think the answer to every problem is "put the government in charge." After all, didn't government policies cause the current economic mess we're in? They don't understand basic economics, so we're going to let them run healthcare? Makes no sense to me....

 

[Friday on my mind]

And now the government as well.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/death_panel_is_not_in_the_bill.html

Again, it comes down to whether you trust a bureaucrat or a free market solution. Instead of government run panels, how about tort reform and a "patients bill of rights?" I don't know why some folks think the answer to every problem is "put the government in charge." After all, didn't government policies cause the current economic mess we're in? They don't understand basic economics, so we're going to let them run healthcare? Makes no sense to me....

While the govt had a role in the current economic crisis it was one of letting the "free market" run amok.Under regulated greedy bankers and others are the culprits.

And I have another thought.Almost all americans eventually will be in a govt run health plan.After you are retired and not working it's going to be medicare,unless you got some free market plan to get rid of that lol.

 

[CunningStunts]

While the govt had a role in the current economic crisis it was one of letting the "free market" run amok.Under regulated greedy bankers and others are the culprits.

And I have another thought.Almost all americans eventually will be in a govt run health plan.After you are retired and not working it's going to be medicare,unless you got some free market plan to get rid of that lol.

I disagree. While greed does play some role, in this case it was government pushing banks and lenders to loosen standards to get everyone in a home. Started under Clinton, continued under Bush, and we still haven't seen the entire fallout yet. That's NOT the free market. That's social experimentation.

I'm not saying that a certain degree of "regulation" isn't needed; in fact, they need to enforce the rules of the game so to speak to protect consumers. But meddling by artificially creating supply or demand only makes things worse. And when it DOES get worse, the government always sings the same refrain... "We need more money." $12 trillion later, what have we got to show?

 

[titsrock]

And now the government as well.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/death_panel_is_not_in_the_bill.html

Again, it comes down to whether you trust a bureaucrat or a free market solution. Instead of government run panels, how about tort reform and a "patients bill of rights?" I don't know why some folks think the answer to every problem is "put the government in charge." After all, didn't government policies cause the current economic mess we're in? They don't understand basic economics, so we're going to let them run healthcare? Makes no sense to me....

Aside from the fact that there are about 1347 threads on Freeones discussing the economic meltdown--most people do not agree with your assessment that it was the Gov't's fault for the economic meltdown. I guess it was the Gov't's fault if by gov't you mean Bush Administration.

Why do the "Free Marketers" fear Gov't competition? If a private company goes against the gov't--and if "everyone hates the gov't"--shouldn't the private company win out?:dunno:

I think people are finally waking up that MOST FORMS of "Insurance" are a waste of money and a healthcare system based on FOR PROFIT is a nightmare for the consumer.

I think the "Free Marketers" and their Health Insurance Friends would actually HAVE to offer a "real product" and not a sham one built on "disqualifying" people when they need care most.

How is that last point--disqualifying patients or denying care based on "pre-existing condition" any different than the *fear* or *idea* that the Gov't will have to ration care? It seems that the patient is fucked in either instance, right?

Well, I'd rather go with the Gov't in this scenario, as would probably 300Million other Americans.

It's not as if Medical Doctors and Nurses will all of a sudden become half as smart or talented working for the Gov't, right?

 

[CunningStunts]

Aside from the fact that there are about 1347 threads on Freeones discussing the economic meltdown--most people do not agree with your assessment that it was the Gov't's fault for the economic meltdown. I guess it was the Gov't's fault if by gov't you mean Bush Administration.

Why do the "Free Marketers" fear Gov't competition? If a private company goes against the gov't--and if "everyone hates the gov't"--shouldn't the private company win out?:dunno:

I think people are finally waking up that MOST FORMS of "Insurance" are a waste of money and a healthcare system based on FOR PROFIT is a nightmare for the consumer.

I think the "Free Marketers" and their Health Insurance Friends would actually HAVE to offer a "real product" and not a sham one built on "disqualifying" people when they need care most.

How is that last point--disqualifying patients or denying care based on "pre-existing condition" any different than the *fear* or *idea* that the Gov't will have to ration care? It seems that the patient is fucked in either instance, right?

Well, I'd rather go with the Gov't in this scenario, as would probably 300Million other Americans.

It's not as if Medical Doctors and Nurses will all of a sudden become half as smart or talented working for the Gov't, right?

There are a LOT of generalities on your post, all are dubious.

If you want to put yet another industry in the hands of the Federal government, that's your right to believe it's for the best. But history is not on your side...

Cheers. :glugglug:

 

[titsrock]

Well, we'll see about that. And there's no greater generalization that your statement that there's "another industry" in the hands of the Federal Gov't at the moment. Which industry? I know there are certain companies being "managed" by the govt...but I'm interested to learn which industries are being run right now.

I am for Single Payer Univ Healthcare. Obamacare does not go far enough, even for me, fwiw...

 

[D-rock]

Why do the "Free Marketers" fear Gov't competition? If a private company goes against the gov't--and if "everyone hates the gov't"--shouldn't the private company win out?:dunno:

I sometimes wonder why free marketers and libertarians fear more socialistic ideas. They may claim they have a fear of it hurting us. However, I think for a lot of them I don't think it's the fact it might fail that bothers them, even if they don't admit it to themselves. I think they really fear the fact it might actually work because they would then have to face the possibility their ideas didn't work as well as they thought.