History of the Middle-Finger Salute: Fact or Fiction?

[Jagger69]

Ever wonder where the tradition of flashing the middle-finger salute at someone as a universal signal for them to go fuck themselves originated? Check this out:

Before the Battle of Agincourt in 1415, the French, anticipating victory over the English, proposed to cut off the middle finger of all captured English soldiers. Without the middle finger it would be impossible to draw the renowned English longbow and therefore they would be incapable of fighting in the future. This famous English longbow was made of the native English Yew tree, and the act of drawing the longbow was known as "plucking the yew" (or "pluck yew").

Much to the bewilderment of the French, the English won a major upset and began mocking the French by waving their middle fingers at the defeated French, saying, See, we can still pluck yew!

Since 'pluck yew' is rather difficult to say, the difficult consonant cluster at the beginning has gradually changed to a labiodentals fricative F', and thus the words often used in conjunction with the one-finger-salute!

It is also because of the pheasant feathers on the arrows used with the longbow that the symbolic gesture is known as "giving the bird.

http://arrogantpolyglot.blogspot.com/2006/07/history-of-middle-finger.html

What do you think? Fact or fiction???

 

[BlueBalls]

I always thought Fuck was a term used after the black plague the king decred that people should have sex more often to bring the population back up.

F-fornication
U-under the
C-command of the
K-king

I heard that somewhere :dunno:. Even if it isnt true its a good story.

 

[Baill Inneraora]

I also heard it was Roman in origin. IDed as digitus impudicus ("impudent finger") in ancient Roman writings.

 

[jo-nathan]

I dont know but it sound probable

 

[Dawn]

Sounds possible but... :dunno:

 

[meesterperfect]

I would believe it if it wasn't for the pluck yew part.
Its possible, but its probably been around for thousands of years.
Its kinda strange that we really don't or ever will know.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...ct=result&cd=1&q=middle+finger+origin&spell=1

 

[qwased]

That was always the myth behind the two fingers generally prefered by us Brits to the single middle. Just a myth though.

 

[assholebythedoor]

fact they had to come up with another solution for the war.

 

[costporsche]

... interesting.

Isn't the word fuck from teh German verb "fricken" (to strike)?

 

[assholebythedoor]

they were saying strike you. right?

 

[calpoon]

I would believe it if it wasn't for the pluck yew part.

exactly. the convention of displaying the middle finger could have came about in this way, but the meaning behind it makes no sense.

this story proposes that the expression "fuck you" and indeed the origin of the word "fuck" came about as a result of this gesture, even though the so-called meaning of the gesture has nothing to do with the generally accepted meaning of the word and phrase.

Pluck means to grasp with your hands and it is a bit of a stretch to attribute that to fuck, which means to have sexual penetration or otherwise used as a sort of metaphor in that context for an unwanted or deceitful action causing harm vis-a-vis, being raped. The connection could be construed to imply masturbation, but like I said, that isn't an assumption that is lent to the common accepted use of the word.

the change from "yew" to you" doesn't fit at all, since these words have zero relational meaning to each other and are merely phonetic homonyms (or more specifically, homophones).

It is more logical to suppose that the gesture for "pluck yew" was adopted to signify the expression "fuck you" based on prior knowledge of such and the coincidence of their similarity in speech, than it would for it to have been the other way around.

 

[marquis2]

... interesting.

Isn't the word fuck from teh German verb "fricken" (to strike)?

It means to penetrate. I am bemused when I read about women fucking men-wrong way round.Women are fucked BY men.

 

[LBP 76]

I read this years ago.

I say it's true.

 

[CRASHnBURN]

I read this years ago.

I say it's true.

same here but I'm still not sure if it is true.

 

[maildude]

From Wiki:
The origin of this gesture is speculative, and quite possibly thousands of years old. It is identified as the digitus impudicus ("impudent finger") in Ancient Roman writings[1] and reference is made to using the finger in the ancient Greek comedy The Clouds by Aristophanes. It was defined there as a gesture intended to insult another person. The widespread usage of the finger in many cultures is likely due to the geographical influence of the Roman Empire and Greco-Roman civilization. Another possible origin of this gesture can be found in the first-century Mediterranean world, where extending the digitus impudicus was one of many methods used to divert the ever present threat of the evil eye.[2]

Another possible origin is the phallic imagery of the raised middle finger (the middle finger being the longest finger on the human hand), similar to the Italian version of the bent elbow insult. Also, there is a variation of the finger where it can be done by performing The Fangul, by sticking out the finger during the throwing motion.

A popular urban legend states that during the Hundred Years' War, the French would cut off the middle fingers of captured English archers so they would be unable to use their bows, and that after the Battle of Agincourt, the victorious English showed the French that their middle fingers were still intact.[3]. This legend is also said of the V sign.

Also:
http://www.ooze.com/finger/html/history.html

 

[No_Man]

Problem: The word "pluck" didn't exist in 1415. The word's etymology traces back to the late Old English "plokken." By 1415, this had transitioned into the Middle English word "plucken." In Middle English, the letter "u" is always long, so that would have been pronounced "plooken." So, phonetically, the British soldiers would have been shouting "plooken yoo," which does roll off the tongue well, but sounds nothing like "fuck you."

 

[GabberMan]

I always thought the English threw two fingers - index and middle - as an insult, as it actually takes two fingers to pull and release properly, and these were the two our French cousins used to cut off if one was caught.

What is it with the Frenchies, eh? Always cutting bits off people; fingers, heads... erm.

Anyway, I'm English and it's always two fingers from me. One is just rude.

 

[marquis2]

I don't think the French, having suffered mightily at the hands of our bowmen,would have let them off with just removing two fingers.They would have butchered them-not unusal with prisoners at the time

 

[jimnt]

Ever wonder where the tradition of flashing the middle-finger salute at someone as a universal signal for them to go fuck themselves originated? Check this out:

Before the Battle of Agincourt in 1415, the French, anticipating victory over the English, proposed to cut off the middle finger of all captured English soldiers. Without the middle finger it would be impossible to draw the renowned English longbow and therefore they would be incapable of fighting in the future. This famous English longbow was made of the native English Yew tree, and the act of drawing the longbow was known as "plucking the yew" (or "pluck yew").

Much to the bewilderment of the French, the English won a major upset and began mocking the French by waving their middle fingers at the defeated French, saying, See, we can still pluck yew!

Since 'pluck yew' is rather difficult to say, the difficult consonant cluster at the beginning has gradually changed to a labiodentals fricative F', and thus the words often used in conjunction with the one-finger-salute!

It is also because of the pheasant feathers on the arrows used with the longbow that the symbolic gesture is known as "giving the bird.

http://arrogantpolyglot.blogspot.com/2006/07/history-of-middle-finger.html

What do you think? Fact or fiction???

well the word FUCK is much younger than this. It was put on the stocks where adulterers were publicly belittled around 1675. "FOR UNLAWFUL CARNAL KNOWLEDGE"

 

[vodkazvictim]

That was always the myth behind the two fingers generally prefered by us Brits to the single middle. Just a myth though.

I wouldn't say the single is preferred, aren't the two used interchangably? I use them interchangably, but as I've not grown up in any set UK location I can't really use myself to judge the population at large with accuracy.

... interesting.

Isn't the word fuck from teh German verb "fricken" (to strike)?

Thought that was Frik?

From Wiki:
The origin of this gesture is speculative, and quite possibly thousands of years old. It is identified as the digitus impudicus ("impudent finger") in Ancient Roman writings[1] and reference is made to using the finger in the ancient Greek comedy The Clouds by Aristophanes. It was defined there as a gesture intended to insult another person. The widespread usage of the finger in many cultures is likely due to the geographical influence of the Roman Empire and Greco-Roman civilization. Another possible origin of this gesture can be found in the first-century Mediterranean world, where extending the digitus impudicus was one of many methods used to divert the ever present threat of the evil eye.[2]

Another possible origin is the phallic imagery of the raised middle finger (the middle finger being the longest finger on the human hand), similar to the Italian version of the bent elbow insult. Also, there is a variation of the finger where it can be done by performing The Fangul, by sticking out the finger during the throwing motion.

A popular urban legend states that during the Hundred Years' War, the French would cut off the middle fingers of captured English archers so they would be unable to use their bows, and that after the Battle of Agincourt, the victorious English showed the French that their middle fingers were still intact.[3]. This legend is also said of the V sign.

Also:
http://www.ooze.com/finger/html/history.html

Much more likely for the middle finger.

I always thought the English threw two fingers - index and middle - as an insult, as it actually takes two fingers to pull and release properly, and these were the two our French cousins used to cut off if one was caught.

What is it with the Frenchies, eh? Always cutting bits off people; fingers, heads... erm.

Anyway, I'm English and it's always two fingers from me. One is just rude.

Yeah, I thought it was the two finger origin.
You know one time a monkey washed up on an English beach? It says something about the French that we thought it was a French spy and killed it. I think we may have tortured it first, can't remember tho.

Being English I can tell you that it's TWO fingers that started that lil story.
Notice that if you give the V for victory sign backwards, this is swearing ONLY IN ENGLAND.
Why? Because those are the two fingers with which one plucks an arrow, which the French would remove from any captured hated English longbowmen.