If A Racist Denies They're A Racist, Does That Make It So?

[CunningStunts]

In your idea for a better question, who is the "them" that you are asking "is it fair to call them a racist?" - the white person or the person "of color"?

Yes, the accusation can cut off debate (or, more likely, a pointless, fruitless argument), but there are times where the description is accurate (see my link in the OP). I have lots of logical arguments about many different things, including race/racism matters, AND the man in the story I linked to is, clearly, a racist. It's not my last refuge, it's simply an accurate description of this man's flawed outlook.

Should no one really care about this?

I guess it depends on when the guy goes from hateful speech to hateful acts.

The white person is usually called a racist in that scenario, but that falsely assumes that people of other ethnicities/colors are incapable of being "racist." The whole are argument is meaningless to me these days. Why call someone a name? You can disagree with their statements/beliefs, isn't that enough? Isn't this just as bad a racial slur?

BTW, kind of related semi-funny story from last night... a friend of a friend was out with us, he's like the Berkely-type-liberal, and stated that black people can't be racist." I proposed an experiment by which we would take him down to SE DC at 2am and have him walk home to test the theory. He declined. I laughed. :rofl:

 

[Legzman]

I don't use ni88a, ni88er or any such derivative - neither do my friends....Period!

One of the advantages of being older is remembering when that word was thrown at one as an insult - no amount of wannabes and rappers attempting to "reclaim" the word will never, EVER make me forget.....

Great - first post today, and now I'm pissed off...Ω

hmmm...you need to chill man. I'm not directing these posts toward you or anyone else here. I just don't understand why its ok for some to use that word and not others. I work with 3 black guys. The refer to people they know that way. Saying shit like "that ***** is crazy" or once in awhile they'll say "whats up *****?" I'm cool with all 3! Yet I know if I come into work some morning and say "sup *****" I'm gonna be looking for a new job!

(yea I didn't censor myself...boo fuckin whooo) Just wanting to be specific.

 

[mrtrebus]

hmmm...you need to chill man. I'm not directing these posts toward you or anyone else here. I just don't understand why its ok for some to use that word and not others. I work with 3 black guys. The refer to people they know that way. Saying shit like "that ***** is crazy" or once in awhile they'll say "whats up *****?" I'm cool with all 3! Yet I know if I come into work some morning and say "sup *****" I'm gonna be looking for a new job!

(yea I didn't censor myself...boo fuckin whooo) Just wanting to be specific.

Well some people within the black community have appropriated the word to use amongst themselves, in the same way that homosexuals use the word queer which has been used as a derogatory term against them.

But do you really need someone to explain why you, as a white person, cannot use the n word to a black person? Can't you work it out for yourself?

 

[Legzman]

Well some people within the black community have appropriated the word to use amongst themselves, in the same way that homosexuals use the word queer which has been used as a derogatory term against them.

But do you really need someone to explain why you, as a white person, cannot use the n word to a black person? Can't you work it out for yourself?

I understand it used to be used as an insult or to degrade someone. So shouldn't it stand to reason that one black person saying that to another black person should also be viewed as an insult. THAT is what I don't understand!

Also being a white non jewish male it is impossible to offend me. Which is mainly why I find it so hard to understand how anything could be considered offensive.

 

[mrtrebus]

I understand it used to be used as an insult or to degrade someone. So shouldn't it stand to reason that one black person saying that to another black person should also be viewed as an insult. THAT is what I don't understand!

Also being a white non jewish male it is impossible to offend me. Which is mainly why I find it so hard to understand how anything could be considered offensive.

Here's the thing, if you really don't understand why not ask THEM why you can't use it!

 

[Legzman]

Here's the thing, if you really don't understand why not ask THEM why you can't use it!

well I asked everyone here. There are black members on this board. Om3ga is apparently black and all I'm getting from him is anger. Still no solid good answer like I asked for on the first page!

 

[om3ga]

hmmm...you need to chill man. I'm not directing these posts toward you or anyone else here. I just don't understand why its ok for some to use that word and not others. I work with 3 black guys. The refer to people they know that way. Saying shit like "that ***** is crazy" or once in awhile they'll say "whats up *****?" I'm cool with all 3! Yet I know if I come into work some morning and say "sup *****" I'm gonna be looking for a new job!

(yea I didn't censor myself...boo fuckin whooo) Just wanting to be specific.

Please understand - not all black people likes hearing that word, regardless of the racial origin of the person who used it. Myself for example.

I would not greet your black colleagues as such, and I would be upset if they reciprocated as such towards me.
As someone who went to school during the Seventies, when the usage was derogatory and widespread, and as someone attacked by NF yobs in that decade (NF = National Front, unreconstructed predecssors of today's BNP), I see nothing "cool" about the word.
If that means I ain't down with it, that's fine with me...

 

[Legzman]

Please understand - not all black people likes hearing that word, regardless of the racial origin of the person who used it. Myself for example.

I would not greet your black colleagues as such, and I would be upset if they reciprocated as such towards me.
As someone who went to school during the Seventies, when the usage was derogatory and widespread, and as someone attacked by NF yobs in that decade (NF = National Front, unreconstructed predecssors of today's BNP), I see nothing "cool" about the word.
If that means I ain't down with it, that's fine with me...

I realize not all people like that word. But the ones who use it regularly seem to be ok with it, provided your not white. Maybe you could enlighten me as to why rappers and such always use that word. They just teach young black people that the word is ok. Yet at the same time, these same young black people get offended by it when a white person uses any form of the word. THEY don't know the origins of it, just that it should be offensive.

 

[mrtrebus]

well I asked everyone here. There are black members on this board. Om3ga is apparently black and all I'm getting from him is anger. Still no solid good answer like I asked for on the first page!

Yeah, instead of actually asking the people you work with who are black & use the word you turn to a porn forum?!? :dunno:

 

[Facial_King]

The white person is usually called a racist in that scenario, but that falsely assumes that people of other ethnicities/colors are incapable of being "racist." The whole are argument is meaningless to me these days. Why call someone a name? You can disagree with their statements/beliefs, isn't that enough? Isn't this just as bad a racial slur?

Wait a minute, are you actually saying that calling someone a "racist" is, in itself, a "racial slur"??? Um, no. See, racism and racist describe certain types of ideas, thinking, reactions, policies, beliefs, and behaviors. If something/someone matches (quacks like duck, swims like duck, etc.), then it's fair to say it's/they are, in fact, racist. The fact that most people consider it an insult to be called "racist" only shows that there has been considerable progress in calling out racism for the ugly thing that it is, and effectively stigmatizing it within society. If someone uses a racist slur, they are behaving in a racist manner. To call the person who uses the word "******" (as an insult, not simply to address the controversy of the word, as I have here) a racist is simply a matter of description. It is not a "slur." To say that Mussolini was a fascist is not a slur, it's a description. Is it possible that the terms racist/racism have been misapplied, overused, or abused? Yes. But that doesn't make the words "slurs."

BTW, kind of related semi-funny story from last night... a friend of a friend was out with us, he's like the Berkely-type-liberal, and stated that black people can't be racist." I proposed an experiment by which we would take him down to SE DC at 2am and have him walk home to test the theory. He declined. I laughed. :rofl:

Oh yeah, here's my story. Went out with a friend of a friend last night also, and he's the the Mississippi-type conservative, and he stated that slavery wasn't all bad, and that most slave owners were really pretty good guys, and that, really, blacks are mentally inferior anyway, so it only makes sense that they ended up getting enslaved anyway. I proposed an experiment in which I'd make him my household slave and keep him in my basement and whip him occasionally if he didn't, say, clean my BBQ grill properly. He declined. I laughed.

I understand it used to be used as an insult or to degrade someone. So shouldn't it stand to reason that one black person saying that to another black person should also be viewed as an insult. THAT is what I don't understand!

Also being a white non jewish male it is impossible to offend me. Which is mainly why I find it so hard to understand how anything could be considered offensive.

Wow, didn't you just answer your own question (pssst... it comes down to the fact that you benefit from white privilege)?

As for your logical stumble that "shouldn't it stand to reason that one black person saying that to another black person should also be viewed as an insult." - well, you tell me, was it ever typical for black Americans to own black slaves? Did an assemblage of black politicians decide that blacks should only be counted as 3/5ths of a person for purposes of the census? Or does the history of the word "******" really have some connection to white domination of black people? Hmmm...... Is it possible that the cultural context could make a difference for some usages of some words?

:dunno:

 

[Legzman]

Yeah, instead of actually asking the people you work with who are black & use the word you turn to a porn forum?!? :dunno:

I have asked them. They just give me all sorts of grief. Start callin me racist and KKK and all that fuckin bullshit.

Wow, didn't you just answer your own question (pssst... it comes down to the fact that you benefit from white privilege)?

As for your logical stumble that "shouldn't it stand to reason that one black person saying that to another black person should also be viewed as an insult." - well, you tell me, was it ever typical for black Americans to own black slaves? Did an assemblage of black politicians decide that blacks should only be counted as 3/5ths of a person for purposes of the census? Or does the history of the word "******" really have some connection to white domination of black people? Hmmm...... Is it possible that the cultural context could make a difference for some usages of some words?

:dunno:

Dunno, but so far thats the best answer I've EVER gotten on this subject!

 

[mrtrebus]

I have asked them. They just give me all sorts of grief. Start callin me racist and KKK and all that fuckin bullshit.

If you were seriously asking them about the word & the rights & wrongs of it & that was their response then they are imbeciles!

 

[Legzman]

If you were seriously asking them about the word & the rights & wrongs of it & that was their response then they are imbeciles!

yea, they are very immature about such subjects. Was hoping for some mature responses here.

 

[CunningStunts]

Wait a minute, are you actually saying that calling someone a "racist" is, in itself, a "racial slur"??? Um, no. See, racism and racist describe certain types of ideas, thinking, reactions, policies, beliefs, and behaviors. If something/someone matches (quacks like duck, swims like duck, etc.), then it's fair to say it's/they are, in fact, racist. The fact that most people consider it an insult to be called "racist" only shows that there has been considerable progress in calling out racism for the ugly thing that it is, and effectively stigmatizing it within society. If someone uses a racist slur, they are behaving in a racist manner. To call the person who uses the word "******" (as an insult, not simply to address the controversy of the word, as I have here) a racist is simply a matter of description. It is not a "slur." To say that Mussolini was a fascist is not a slur, it's a description. Is it possible that the terms racist/racism have been misapplied, overused, or abused? Yes. But that doesn't make the words "slurs."



Oh yeah, here's my story. Went out with a friend of a friend last night also, and he's the the Mississippi-type conservative, and he stated that slavery wasn't all bad, and that most slave owners were really pretty good guys, and that, really, blacks are mentally inferior anyway, so it only makes sense that they ended up getting enslaved anyway. I proposed an experiment in which I'd make him my household slave and keep him in my basement and whip him occasionally if he didn't, say, clean my BBQ grill properly. He declined. I laughed.



Wow, didn't you just answer your own question (pssst... it comes down to the fact that you benefit from white privilege)?

As for your logical stumble that "shouldn't it stand to reason that one black person saying that to another black person should also be viewed as an insult." - well, you tell me, was it ever typical for black Americans to own black slaves? Did an assemblage of black politicians decide that blacks should only be counted as 3/5ths of a person for purposes of the census? Or does the history of the word "******" really have some connection to white domination of black people? Hmmm...... Is it possible that the cultural context could make a difference for some usages of some words?

:dunno:

Again, the problem is that alot of people use the term "racist" when in fact they mean something else, or because they know that word has come to be viewed in PC society as WORSE than a racial slur. Plus, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, it's used with such impunity that it's really losing all meaning. BTW, if you happen to use a racial slur in the heat of a moment, does that make you a "racist?"

Good story about your friend, that made me laugh.

 

[Facetious]

Great - first post today, and now I'm pissed off...Ω

Such threads indeed have the capacity to do that.





I think that we should be moving away from the politically motivated broad brushing, what is the purpose ? To cause some type of mock revolution ? Am I supposed to feel guilty all day because some caustic hick happens to have a chip on his shoulder ? Am I supposed to make a contribution to some activist oriented non profit entity ?









Tell Me

 

[jasonk282]

I have asked them. They just give me all sorts of grief. Start callin me racist and KKK and all that fuckin bullshit.

That's actually pretty Racist of them.

 

[ChefChiTown]

Only he didn’t say “N*&%*r” (to paraphrase Ralphie). He used the racial epithet, the big one, the queen-mother of racial epithets, the “N-dash-dash-dash-dash-dash” word. Spelled out for all to see.

HAHAHA, the "N-dash-dash-dash-dash-dash" word? Who wrote this, a 14 year old, puritan boy? Why can't people just be adults and say the word "******" when that's the word that they want to be saying? Jesus-titty-fucking-Christ, it's just a word. An extremely racist word; but a word none-the-less.

 

[meesterperfect]

Well some people within the black community have appropriated the word to use amongst themselves, in the same way that homosexuals use the word queer which has been used as a derogatory term against them.

But do you really need someone to explain why you, as a white person, cannot use the n word to a black person? Can't you work it out for yourself?

no i can't. splain it to me please.

man all this racial bullshit is promoted by the schools and the media and hollywood.
now even by the president and the people he has chosen.

its bigger than we might think.
it keep us fighting, it also keeps us mixing.
= less competition, more money, sweet sweet money.

 

[MILF Man]

Exactly. :hatsoff:

Obama is anti-American and a racist.





I've heard it before. From Black Panthers, a guy on MTV's Real World, rappers, and so on. People that say they haven't heard it are either willfully ignorant and ignore it when people say it, or they are lying.

Thank you! The thought process is more apparent than some people would rather believe.

Anyone can be a racist no matter what color they are. And NO.......this doesn't exclude blacks.

 

[Facetious]

While we're on the subject of the ever dreaded "R" word, let's compare and contrast the mission statements of both "LULAC" - League of United Latin American Citizens and the NAACP.

''LULAC is the largest and oldest Hispanic Organization in the United States. LULAC advances the economic condition, educational attainment, political influence, health and civil rights of Hispanic Americans through community-based programs operating at more than 700 LULAC councils nationwide. The organization involves and serves all Hispanic nationality groups.

Historically, LULAC has focused heavily on education, civil rights, and employment for Hispanics. LULAC councils provide more than a million dollars in scholarships to Hispanic students each year, conduct citizenship and voter registration drives, develop low income housing units, conduct youth leadership training programs, and seek to empower the Hispanic community at the local, state and national level.''

~ ~ ~ ~ ~​

NAACP
''The mission of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is to ensure the political, educational, social, and economic equality of rights of all persons and to eliminate racial hatred and racial discrimination.
VISION STATEMENT
The vision of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is to ensure a society in which all individuals have equal rights and there is no racial hatred or racial discrimination.''


NAACP


Interesting !! :o