Iran and North Korea + Journalism = an insult to my intelligence ...

[Member2019]

Two phrases I want you to memorize. You will virtually never hear them on the TV in any country.

1. weapons grade
2. escape velocity

Iran claims it is enriching uranium for peaceful purposes. Of course, anyone with an elementary physics background knows that's bullshit. They could produce decades of power grade enriched uranium just from running their current number of centrifuges for 6 months. People also forget that the more radioactive a substance, the faster it decays. You don't pre-produce enriched uranium.

Their current level of production can only be solely for weapons grade enrichment. Either that, or they are stockpiling uranium that will be useless.

North Korea claims they successfully tested space launch capability, and have put a satellite in orbit. Anyone who was tracking the rocket they launched with an elementary physics background also knows that's bullshit as well. There is this little term called "escape velocity." I know a lot of people think rockets go "straight up into space" (I'll never forget the girl in my high school who screamed, "oh no, the shuttle's going to crash!" when it was being launched into a highly elliptical orbit more towards the poles), but they don't. They go so fast at a specific vector so the centripetal force at that vector results in a rotation (which is not always circular) around the Earth that is the same vector towards the Earth as the gravity is pulling down from that altitude. Hence why there is a fixed velocity required for a specific altitude (or average in altitude, long story, but it's as old as Kepler and 16th Century physics).

North Korea's most recent test was a sub-orbital, long-range rocket. Everyone knows it. They know it. The level of bullshit is beyond belief in this case as well.

But, apparently, China and Russia have people who never studied physics. Or, more likely, this is all rhetoric from their end as well. It doesn't matter if you're right. It only matters if people believe your bullshit.

The media around the world are definitely far more ignorant of basic physics, so these are two phrases you'll either never hear, or at least rarely hear. In fact, if you do hear them, they will made in such a way that anyone who knows anything about them will know they don't know what they are talking about.

Heck, I recently caught some of the recent Shuttle coverage on local TV (in Florida) during both the launch and landing, and I couldn't believe someone that is allegedly the "NASA expert" at the station spewed information like they didn't even know what they were talking about. Then I found out they were actually fed nationally, and I heard even the anchor with one of the major networks totally spewing details that were either so wrong or so out-of-context.

Twenty plus years ago, that would not be accepted in US journalism. But today, people seem to have absolutely no background in what they report on at all. Hence why this bullshit seems to continually fly.

And not only does the rhetoric from various leaders and media outlets of various countries insult my intelligence, but I'm having great difficulty finding a media outlet that doesn't either -- the US or abroad. I don't expect people to be experts, but I do tired of rhetoric prying on the ignorance of others. But that seems to be a growing trend, as with each passing year, more and more people think the Moon Landings were faked and the WTC was brought down with explosives.

Sometimes I honest to fucking God wish I wasn't an engineer, and failed every physics course, let alone had no scientific aptitude to ever take a physics course. Sometimes only though.

 

[Ol-Skool-Perv]

What the problem with Iran and North Korea doing what we did long ago?

We donated Iran's nuclear infrastructure during the reign of terror of our little devil, The Shah. We f'd up Iran with imperialism and oppression and now maybe they want to even the playing field a bit. Israel has around 200 nukes and throws their weight around like a bunch of bitches. I'd like to have a nuke if they were my neighbors.

North Korea is just run by an ego maniac who wants to be a big boy to be respected and feared by the West. He's actually important to America because y'all are always under threat and the government just loves y'all to be scared and worrisome in order to fuck shit up right before your eyes.

The enemy lies within

 

[Philbert]

What the problem with Iran and North Korea doing what we did long ago?

We donated Iran's nuclear infrastructure during the reign of terror of our little devil, The Shah. We f'd up Iran with imperialism and oppression and now maybe they want to even the playing field a bit. Israel has around 200 nukes and throws their weight around like a bunch of bitches. I'd like to have a nuke if they were my neighbors.

North Korea is just run by an ego maniac who wants to be a big boy to be respected and feared by the West. He's actually important to America because y'all are always under threat and the government just loves y'all to be scared and worrisome in order to fuck shit up right before your eyes.

The enemy lies within

Awesome...you followed a post of reason, insightful logic, clear correlation of events to facts, and intelligent extrapolation, with a post of illogical, jumbled paranoia; incoherent guesses; and a silly mixing of various situations into one ridiculous confession of ignorance.
Not bad...!:rofl:

 

[Namreg]

the media in general do not bother researching anything anymore. i speak english, german, and french and can tell you that it is virtually impossible to find a mainstream publication in any of those languages that is not full of bullshit.
they all repeat 'news' that they are being fed by the powers that be, without checking into them or even bothering to ask basic questions.

i'll give you an example:
my stepbrother is in the canadian army, and is being sent to afghanistan (for the second time, btw) in 2 months. why? i have no idea. osama was there? but where is he now? why didn't anyone actually try to get him? how do you go from capturing osama to overthrowing a government, occupying a country, and rebuilding said country? what is the justification?

president karzai, whose power seems to end at the city limits of kabul, recently introduced a law legalising rape and reducing women to little more than childbearing furniture. why are we fighting for this guy? an ex-business partner of GWB, no less...

canadian PM harper recently said that the war cannot be won. so why send more soldiers then? to fight for karzai's version of law and order?

but instead of reading answers to those questions in the canadian media, all we get is hockey scores, obama bought a hat today, celine dion is still ugly and octomom is going nuts. where are the real news? they went away with the real reporters.

the shuttle thing is no different, in the old days there were experts on TV... now there are entertainers.

 

[dogbone27]

But, apparently, China and Russia have people who never studied physics. Or, more likely, this is all rhetoric from their end as well. It doesn't matter if you're right. It only matters if people believe your bullshit.

Nah, it's just that they don't care, that all.

 

[TITS KING]

You are my neighbor ...... I have the right to keep any type of weapons to defend my house............but you are not allowed..to do so because you are an inferior citizen of the neighbor- hood and I am superior.......i will not respect the UNO rules myself......but will act as a self proclaimed policeman to force you follow that so-called UN rules........

...........Is this right.............:turnturn::nono::nono::nono:

 

[Namreg]

he was talking about the piss-poor excuse that passes for journalism these days, not north korea.

 

[calpoon]

my option wasn't on there.

"right, but he's still an asshole."

I'm just kidding. We might not always agree, but I think you definitely have a perspective worth considering on this board.

 

[Legzman]

Iran claims it is enriching uranium for peaceful purposes. Of course, anyone with an elementary physics background knows that's bullshit.

That sentence right there is all I needed to read to know the jist of your whole post! Cause its what I've been saying all along! But no one wants to listen to me.

 

[calpoon]

well I do remember Bush giving a speech about the danger of Iran (he does indeed lack an elementary physics background), and then like two days later his own investigation team filed a report that said Iran posed no nuclear threat and you didn't hear anything about it on any of the major news networks.

yes, you might not use enriched uranium to heat your condo, but having an EU program isn't exactly the same thing as having missiles with atomic warheads either.

 

[calpoon]

and on this doctor strangelove note, I find it very funny that all the countries who signed the nuclear disarmament treaty were the one's that don't have them, and all the ones that refused to sign it are the ones that already do have them.

 

[Wainkerr99]

It is interesting that after all these years since 1945 countries politicians are still concerned with armament, along with nukkiler bombs instead of energy.
It is amazing that the solution - however temporary - to avoiding war and "peaceful co-existence" is the very thing some countries are intent on using in weapons of horror.

And then to feed lies about it on top of that.

 

[Shindekudasai]

I don't want to dive into this discussion, because I have a lot of work to do the next couple of days and won't have the time to properly participate, but I'll still make some points. Consider them "food for thought".

There are some wild guesses, speculations and half-truths in this thread, even in Prof Voluptuary's otherwise well made posting.
For example: Why should Iran not enrich uranium? The half-value period of uranium is still high enough, that it can still be less expensive and much easier (because of international security measurements) for Iran to "pre-produce" enriched uranium than to buy it. And even if they (would) want to make weapons grade uranium. Why would, according to your argumentation, the pre-produced uranium be less effective (because of its decay) when produced for energy purposes but very dangerous if produced for nuclear armament purposes? A nuclear bomb solely assembled with uranium is the least effective nuclear bomb you can build nowadays. The only thing making the situation really dangerous, is the fact, that it would probably be what is called a dirty bomb.
Or one question that came to me when I read the "opening statement": How do you know, how many centrifuges Iran now has, when even the UN (who actually tries to control and supervise Iran's uranium production) isn't sure about it?

Awesome...you followed a post of reason, insightful logic, clear correlation of events to facts, and intelligent extrapolation, with a post of illogical, jumbled paranoia; incoherent guesses; and a silly mixing of various situations into one ridiculous confession of ignorance.
Not bad...!:rofl:

Alright, you did your part once again: arrogantly and ignorantly insulting and riciduling other users without making even a single argument on point. You should go into politics. You could be the king of smear campaigns. Do you have anything worthwhile to contribute to any thread?
...and according to your hateful negative rep, I'm the pompous ass, yeah right. I guess you're just an angry man, afraid of anything that could broaden your horizon. I know, I said that I'll never give a response to another posting from you again, although you keep flaming and "negative repping" me, but sometimes enough is enough. This doesn't mean, that I'll let myself be provoked by you into responding to everything you say in the future. You can keep hating on. If that's the only thing that keeps you going here, you will probably have alienated yourself soon enough.

On topic regarding Ol-Skool-Perv's posting:
Although I may not agree with everything Ol-Skool-Perv said, he has some valid points. Exaggerated maybe, but still not to be neglected. It is for example a fact, that large part of this repeated weapons testing by North Korea is due to the nature of its political regime and its international relations. North Koreas neighbors (South Korea, Japan, China,...) prosper, while North Korea has mainly its military and its weapons tests to show for. According to various studies in the field of political psychology (a special field of political science), in authoritarian and totalitarian psychology the showing of military capability to neighboring countries (or the whole world) is amongst one of the few things a country like North Korea can and will do to place itself on the map, so to speak. Simply put North Korea "wants to be a big boy to be respected and feared by the West", as Perv said.
Also, Israel is one of only two countries, that refuse to sign any treaty related to the control of nuclear armament. Why should some Arabic and Persian countries not be allowed to be afraid of Israel's nuclear potential (as a country who has waged war after war as can be proved), but Israel is allowed to indulge in fear and hate campaigns against them? I'm not coming to the defence of Iran's diffamation regime here, but we should stop applying double standards.
And last, his argument about fear ("He's actually important to America because y'all are always under threat and the government just loves y'all to be scared and worrisome in order to fuck shit up right before your eyes.") also has a valid point. Studies and research by most serious scholars/scientists in history and political science dedicated to this topic have shown, that the politics of fear and the creation of fear are amongst the cornerstones of imperialistic policy, polity and politics. Actually there are three basic lines in this area: fear, superiority or a mixture of both. The US under the Bush administration is a prime example for the first category, the Roman Empire in the time of the early Gallic Wars (metus gallicus, the "Gallic Fear", not the Gallic War under Gaius Julius Caesar), and the Punic Wars (metus punicus, the "Punic Fear") is a good example for this category, too. Germany during the First World War and Japan during the Second World War are good examples for the second category, Sparta before and during the Peloponnesian War and Germany under the Nazi regime and in the Second World War are good examples for the third category.

 

[shayd]

I think news companies like to just wait until the stories get really "juicy" to cover things like this. Clearly there are many issues here that supposedly qualified people have gotten completely wrong.

 

[bodie54]

Also, Israel is one of only two countries, that refuse to sign any treaty related to the control of nuclear armament. Why should some Arabic and Persian countries not be allowed to be afraid of Israel's nuclear potential (as a country who has waged war after war as can be proved), but Israel is allowed to indulge in fear and hate campaigns against them? I'm not coming to the defence of Iran's diffamation regime here, but we should stop applying double standards.

No, I don't think we should. Despite frequent provocation Israel has a proven track record of responsible nuke ownership. They've had the capacity to wipe their enemies off the map for some time but they've chosen not to. Given Isreal's arsenal I seriously doubt their enemies would have shown that kind of restraint, particularly since it's a core tenet of their philosophy that Israel has no right to exist. I like the imbalance of power just the way it is. The last person I want to see with nuclear weapons is someone as hateful and out of touch with reality as Ahmajinadad.

 

[Philbert]

No, I don't think we should. Despite frequent provocation Israel has a proven track record of responsible nuke ownership. They've had the capacity to wipe their enemies off the map for some time but they've chosen not to. Given Isreal's arsenal I seriously doubt their enemies would have shown that kind of restraint, particularly since it's a core tenet of their philosophy that Israel has no right to exist. I like the imbalance of power just the way it is. The last person I want to see with nuclear weapons is someone as hateful and out of touch with reality as Ahmajinadad.

Exactly.
As someone once said, the difference between Israel and Iran having nuclear weapons is...attitude.

Alright, you did your part once again: arrogantly and ignorantly insulting and riciduling other users without making even a single argument on point. You should go into politics. You could be the king of smear campaigns. Do you have anything worthwhile to contribute to any thread?
...and according to your hateful negative rep, I'm the pompous ass, yeah right. I guess you're just an angry man, afraid of anything that could broaden your horizon. I know, I said that I'll never give a response to another posting from you again, although you keep flaming and "negative repping" me, but sometimes enough is enough. This doesn't mean, that I'll let myself be provoked by you into responding to everything you say in the future. You can keep hating on. If that's the only thing that keeps you going here, you will probably have alienated yourself soon enough.

Hey, monkey man...I think your pomposity is beginning to squeeze your brain into a too-small space.
It was you, not me, that sent a neg rep message calling me a "pompous ass"; I was so crushed by your overblown sense of personal importance...not...you keep trying to tell us how smart you are by using endless overlong statements of irrelevant facts that, in the end, say practically nothing new or interesting .
A few points before I get too bored ...neg rep is only possible occasionally, as there is a time and amount limit of any rep to one person. I don't care that much about you or your posts...I don't flame, as it's against the rules of the board. And I can' t think of any post you made recently I responded to. You're mostly a Legend in your own mind.:rofl:
So, even though you made the silly statement you wouldn't respond to me, it was as much BS as most of what you post as opinion? Not surprising...
And I have contributed to most threads I've respond to in the years I have been here...that's just a childish attempt at ineffective insult. Hate requires caring...and I don't take you very seriously. ( BTW...You Misspelled ridicule.)

Back on topic...
N Korea has been strangling itself for decades, and is so impoverished due to the efforts of an excessive totalitarian regime that carries on the family tradition.
S Korea and Japan, to name a few, are doing great, and that is the greatest threat to N Korea.
Since N Korea's population is starving, still, and they have mostly weapons sales to produce national wealth, how is it they A) have the technology to use and produce high tech communications satellites and B) don't mind sending it very expensively into the ocean on a consistently unreliable delivery system?
It's an obvious sales pitch to show they have a product in development that can give, eventually, nuclear delivery capability to anyone who can afford to buy it.

 

[Shindekudasai]

It was you, not me, that sent a neg rep message calling me a "pompous ass";

Oh really?

Still a pompous ass...only you think you're God's gift to discussion. Lame is as lame does, Monkey Man.

So that wasn't you then, I guess? Seems like you're not only a pompous ass yourself, you're also a liar and a perverter of facts. As if that's a surprise...

I was so crushed by your overblown sense of personal importance...

Coming from you, that has to be a compliment.

not...you keep trying to tell us how smart you are by using endless overlong statements of irrelevant facts that, in the end, say practically nothing new or interesting .

I know that in your small, pitiful world you are the king and no facts are relevant except those that you use or create. Well, that's probably the reason why in the real world noone listens to you. If my statements are too long for you or if scholarly results and scientific data are non-existent to you, you should probably consider going to North Korea and run the next election campaign for Kim Jong Ill. You'd be really useful there.

I don't care that much about you or your posts...I don't flame, as it's against the rules of the board. And I can' t think of any post you made recently I responded to.

Yeah, that's why you had to respond to my posting. And not even with regards to content, but just to try to insult me again. And that's why after our last "discussion" you followed me around and tried to belittle and ridicule me every opportunity you got (or thought you got), until I decided to ignore you like the little child that you are.
And you never insult people who don't have your opinion, no, never. You have a history of ignorantly and arrogantly deriding and ridiculing others on this board. And don't even deny it. Every registered member can look at your statistics.
Oh wait, you actually responded to something on topic. You posted one sentence that holds no genuine thought of your own, agreeing with someone, you else hardly ever agree with, just to support his opinion standing against mine. Talking about grasping every straw to try to prove me wrong...

So, even though you made the silly statement you wouldn't respond to me, it was as much BS as most of what you post as opinion? Not surprising...

I see how that is not flaming...

And I have contributed to most threads I've respond to in the years I have been here...that's just a childish attempt at ineffective insult. Hate requires caring...and I don't take you very seriously. ( BTW...You Misspelled ridicule.)

And you care so little, that you even have to look for mistakes. Again, dude, it's really pathetic when you're only fact-based response is pointing out a mistake in a posting made by someone whose mother tongue isn't English.
As if your English were flawless...but that's another story...


@bodie:
Of course giving Iran nuclear weapons would endanger peace and stability even more. There is no arguing that. But honestly, why the blindness when it comes to Israel? They just elected a government, that threatens with the depravation of citizenship of all non-jewish Israelites. They believe in the divine state and that only Jews should be allowed to live there. That persians, christians, arabs (and others before them) have lived on that land, is not even recognized. As some fanatic Arabs deny the existence (or the right to such) of the state of Israel, Israel does the some with Palestine. And Israel still occupies land that originally belonged to its neighboring countries. Sorry, but no other country in the world would get away with that.
Israel is no less dangerous. They're just under the protection of the US and most of the EU, so they don't have to worry about a thing they do, and they're internationally accepted. But the last war Israel fought was even condemned by otherwise pro-Israelian countries like Germany.
I'm not saying that Israel is satan or the root of all evil. Not at all. But it should be taken into consideration, that Israel has done (and is till doing) its "fair share" in the region.

 

[Friday on my mind]

I don't know what media your talking about.I have heard many many times in the news about the issue of the Iranians having more than the neccessary equipment for a civilian nuke program.
And on the North Korean missile test just this morning I heard on CBS news that while the test seemed to be a failure as vehicle to put satellite up as the rocket never achieved orbit it did go twice as far as any previous rocket from them which CBS said had implications as possible nuclear weapon delivery system.Sounds like they reported exactly what you say they don't.

 

[Shindekudasai]

Now as I've cooled down a bit, I have to add something:
I'm sorry if I'm ruining the mood here. It was not my intention. I'm just not the kind of guy to sit back and take every insult. I know, that things like that (useless discussions with gibbon-haters) should be beneath me.
So, I am apologizing (something one normally doesn't do, as most people probably think right now) to the other readers of this thread.

 

[No_Man]

Twenty plus years ago, that would not be accepted in US journalism. But today, people seem to have absolutely no background in what they report on at all. Hence why this bullshit seems to continually fly.

I'd double that number. Read Entertaining Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business by Neil Postman. He makes virtually the exact same argument 24 years ago, and it had already been going on for 10-15 years when he wrote that. We're at least two full generations removed from any real journalism in this country.