Iraq

[Cheeky Monkey]

Bullshit! Iraq didnt support terrorists. Saddam didnt even allow terrorists to live in his country because they threatened his power and control of Iraq. You wanna know what the ties between Saddam and terrorists were? I'll tell you, he hated them and he didnt in any way colaborate with them. Terorists tried to make contact with him and he rebuffed them because they threatened his power and control it's as plain and simple as that. So dont use the support of terrorism as a means for war because it's bullshit.

That's right, Brino - Saddam did not endorse the sort of Islamic Fundamentalism that was preached by the Taliban despite his hate of the west.

 

[hinddee29]

Bullshit! Iraq didnt support terrorists. Saddam didnt even allow terrorists to live in his country because they threatened his power and control of Iraq. You wanna know what the ties between Saddam and terrorists were? I'll tell you, he hated them and he didnt in any way colaborate with them. Terorists tried to make contact with him and he rebuffed them because they threatened his power and control it's as plain and simple as that. So dont use the support of terrorism as a means for war because it's bullshit.

Ok then if you think. You all want a simple end. Just get rid
of the middle east and it would be all over. Nothing good come from there anyway. I do agree it need to end. If we aren't going
to go all the way, we need to pull them out.

hinddee29

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

OIL

 

[Jizm]

it's (war) not even a last resort. it is no option at all. peace can only be achieved peacefully

Now in general you've really got me worried!
I'd be curious to hear from your bordering friends how they feel regarding those comments. Throwing daisies and blowing kisses at a Nazi invasion was not a last resort. Or even how Germany would feel if Russia had taken a nice chunk of it after WWII. Therefore, war is and will forever remain a last resort. It's sad but true.

I don't really know how international community thinks how critical we are about our own government, but we are extremly critical and focus a lot of investigations and launch independent probes to help determine where we went wrong or if it was the best thing to do (generally speaking).
Around half the population of our own Nation feels invading Iraq was a mistake. Theoretically, since we live under a democracy this means about half of our politians also now presently disagree with the war. So yes we are a very critical nation.

1) I disagree here completly. We are spending billions of American tax dollars to help rebuild the country. We (the U.S. military) are not foolishly dropping bombs wrecklessly. Your accusing the U.S. of blind killing and destruction. This is not the case. I've seen the technology they've used. Minimizing civilian casualties is a top priority for the military. I know this. It's really almost insulting to just say otherwise by only seeing explosions on tv.

2)

it doesn't matter how many more would have been killed if saddam was still in charge

That's just wrong man.
By the way, Iraqi police or the Iraqi military isn't very popular either. The bombers are trying to prevent a nation to rebuild itself and hate any form of order other then their own bloody path.

3)

i really appreciate that you want to change the world for the better, but invasion is not a solution. you can't establish peace by making war.

We've been trying to negotiate with North Korea for well over 50 yrs. They may have as many as 8 nuclear warheads. This should be a concern of every nation. Especially with the present maniac leader they have. North Korea is a ticking time bomb. Around 60% of it's GDP goes to it's military. There building towards something and my guess is something ugly.

4) We have messed up. Vietnam as one of many examples. I agree with you here.

5) I disagree as stated earlier.

6)"

I'm not really taking any of this personally. Thanks for your insight. It's good to hear voices of these matters from outside nations. (I'm kinda done with this).
On a lighter note, I'm of German decent myself. I've always wanted to visit the motherland as I'm very proud of my German heritage. I think it's a great country, I've always wanted to experience Oktoberfest etc..:glugglug:

 

[don_equis]

Iraq is a total waste of time . The iraqis love you and praise you but when the soldier's get blown to bits, they hurry to steal everything they can from the charred bodies(this includes boots, cds military stuff) and then they dance around the horrific scene.Fallujah should be bombed until those damm sunnis realize that they are not in power no more. This country has become the ultimate battleground against terrorist, it seems like during the chaos of the war a lot of militants from Syria, Jordan, Iran, Saudi have flocked in numbers to kill US troops, it is sorry to see how the Iraqi people won't stand up to these foreign fighters, the sunnis and the religious militants(but then again islam is a fucked up religion). The US started this thanks to Mr. Bush personal vendetta agaisnt Saddam, so far 900+ american soldiers, civilians, iraqis and other coalition countries have paid with their lives. It sucks to say this but the US is way to commited to pull out, the moment that happens Iraq will far under the terrorist rule, we (US) are deep in this "shit pie" and so far it seems like we are having more than half of it. I believe the war was rushed and we will not get anything out of it but the oil companies,it sucks that terrorist and islam are getting away with shit. This is indeed a modern day crusade.

 

[Jizm]

Well written don_equis. So I've heard numerous thoughts about the war itself as to whether it was right or not. What are your suggestions as of now? For example, should the U.S. simply pull out or maintain a presence? What do you think would be the best path for the nations involved in this mess?
What would you do?

 

[LetoII]

Now in general you've really got me worried!
I'd be curious to hear from your bordering friends how they feel regarding those comments. Throwing daisies and blowing kisses at a Nazi invasion was not a last resort. Or even how Germany would feel if Russia had taken a nice chunk of it after WWII. Therefore, war is and will forever remain a last resort. It's sad but true.

i got you worried because i was citing one of the most important wisdoms of mankind ??? now YOU got me worried.
your comparison with WWII was unfitting, because these countries were defending themselves against a maniac who was willing to lead his sick crusade as far as possible. they were struggling for their sheer existence. i think iraq was a little bit different, since the us were the agressors who started the war. it wasn't like GWB was defending his country against an overwhelming force ! i never said defending yourself in war is no option, but making war on someone without even being threatened is a war crime !!!



1) I disagree here completly. We are spending billions of American tax dollars to help rebuild the country. We (the U.S. military) are not foolishly dropping bombs wrecklessly. Your accusing the U.S. of blind killing and destruction. This is not the case. I've seen the technology they've used. Minimizing civilian casualties is a top priority for the military. I know this. It's really almost insulting to just say otherwise by only seeing explosions on tv.

sure you are spending a lot of money to rebuild the country, but does that justify dropping bombs in the first place ?! you can't make up for the thousands of dead by rebuilding their widows houses ! now if those weapons you were talking about were really that precise and accurate the bombardment should have lastet one hour at most !!! as i already said: how many crucial military (or intelligence) buildings can a single city contain ??? they dropped hundreds of bombs each night for several days. where's the strategic precision in that ? now, idon't want to say that your government was dropping bombs randomly. but we all know that they wanted to hit and kill certain personalities like husseins sons, his chiefs of staff, intelligence personnel, and so on. and with the bad intel on the street they weren't quite sure where to strike. that's why so many bombs fell !!!


but you're right jizm. enough arguing about the pros and cons of the war. we have a situation right now, so what can we do ? i think don_equis pointed it out pretty well: most of the terroristic activities are conducted by religious militants from other countries. they only harm the reputation of the iraqis and their relation to the us soldiers. but what can you do against it ? tightening the rope and squeezing those individuals out of the population would only trigger a boomerang effect and add fuel to the fire.
one thing is sure: economy must be boosted in iraq in order to make the people content. it is imperative that these people don't feel pissed off anymore. but i'm afraid that's a matter of years or even decades. frankly, i think there is no quick and clean solution for this mess. people need time for their wounds to heal.

 

[Brino]

but you're right jizm. enough arguing about the pros and cons of the war. we have a situation right now, so what can we do ? i think don_equis pointed it out pretty well: most of the terroristic activities are conducted by religious militants from other countries. they only harm the reputation of the iraqis and their relation to the us soldiers. but what can you do against it ? tightening the rope and squeezing those individuals out of the population would only trigger a boomerang effect and add fuel to the fire.
one thing is sure: economy must be boosted in iraq in order to make the people content. it is imperative that these people don't feel pissed off anymore. but i'm afraid that's a matter of years or even decades. frankly, i think there is no quick and clean solution for this mess. people need time for their wounds to heal.

Ok I'm sorry but I have to correct you there. The terrorism in Iraq is about 50/50. Yes some of the terrorists are from other countries but a lot of the terrorists are Iraqi. The Sadr militia for instance isnt terrorists from other countries they are Iraqi following an Iraqi cleric who just wants the U.S. out of Iraq.

A lot of the other terrorists are Iraqi too this should be proven by the fact that a lot of the terrorists who kidnapped people over there then released those people as soon as their demands for the troops of those countries to leave were met. That's what the Iraqi terrorists would do not the terrorists from other countries would do. The terrorists from other countries would have killed those hostages regardless.

 

[LetoII]

you're right brino, but does it actually matter what country they're from ???
what matters is that no terrorist in the world is a representative of the people of iraq.

 

[Brino]

you're right brino, but does it actually matter what country they're from ???
what matters is that no terrorist in the world is a representative of the people of iraq.

True but some of those terrorists are the people of Iraq!

 

[LetoII]

see how complicated that situation is ?!

 

[Brino]

see how complicated that situation is ?!

Ofcourse it's complicated everything in the middleeast is complicated especially when your dealing with people's religion and belief's. But it's not something your going to fix by throwing money at it after all we threw money at the Afghans and that only created the world's largest terrorist organization.

The truth of the matter is I dont know what should be done and sometimes I do think that Israel has the right idea in building a wall and that maybe we should just build a wall around the whole middleeast and put it on a timeout for lack of a better word. Then maybe 50-100 years from now they'll have all their crap sorted out and will be ready to rejoin the world I dont know. I don't think anybody really knows what should be done.