Lesbians parents of 3 kids denied family admission rate at pool because they're not a

[Rattrap]

Re: Lesbians parents of 3 kids denied family admission rate at pool because they're n

You say this...

Just because I don't picket with homosexuals that are protesting for equal rights doesn't mean that I'm opposing them.

...but then you say this, every time:

Do you want to know what the reality of this whole "issue" is with this story? It's about a few meaningless dollars. That's it. It's not about minority rights. It's not about homosexuals being discriminated against. It's not about if lesbian parents with adoptive children should be considered a family or not. It's about a few fucking dollars.

It's just a few dollars. It's just a title. It's just a front seat on the bus. Et cetera...this is what I mean by "oppose". Perhaps marginalize would be more appropriate?

...people are still going to make this all about minority and civil rights.

People just want to bitch and bitch and bitch about shit that is so fucking meaningless in the long run.

I don't see civil rights as at all meaningless in the long run. And it is about civil rights - it's about a law that says "You get less" - in this case, recognition as a family unit (at least according to the director; I haven't looked into the Idaho laws personally). Less, because...? Gays, ick. It doesn't matter whether or not the family in question are being drama-hounds for their own sakes (which I get the feeling you feel that they are, and I won't argue with you one way or the other on that). And now we can lead right into the California court/gay marriage thread, as most of the arguments are going to be the same...

Since we, as a society, are going to take ridiculous claims of discrimination seriously, why not bitch about Ladies' Night, you know?

Thursday night is "Ladies' Night" at most bars, so why don't I cause a big ruckus, bitch and moan about how that discriminates against me, as a male, because I don't get cheaper drinks.

As for this, the validity in comparison would, in my mind, rest on whether or not this pool is state run/funded (it isn't clear to me from the article if the director's using the State Foundation's guidelines or is part of the State Foundation). If so, it falls short - but if not (if this is purely a private business simply referencing some State guideline)...well, then it's just a judgment call of opinion. I believe there was a thread on a pharmacy not offering contraceptives that had all sorts of arguments more specifically in this area.

 

[DJCowboy]

Re: Lesbians parents of 3 kids denied family admission rate at pool because they're n

I still don't understand how people have issues with homosexuality but it is this guy's place and I don't believe he shouldn't have to be forced to change his rules. It's just like some places that allow smoking and some that don't.

Freedom of expression is a two-way street, gays can express how they feel just as others (whom may oppose homosexuality) should also be allowed to express how they feel even if it may seem politically incorrect to us. If this couple or any other gay couple were to sue and then the guy would inevitably be forced to let them in probably making him hate gays even more so having an adverse effect that homosexuals want. They need to try and find a different way to influence these people so they are more accepting of gays instead of having the law force them to accept it.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

Re: Lesbians parents of 3 kids denied family admission rate at pool because they're n

This is an interesting thought because it does make it seem this state worker will now take it upon himself to be "marriage police" at the ticket office. If 2 buddies take their kids for a swim, they, too, should not qualify for the discount either. :dunno:

Interesting...

Exactly. Is this guy fairly denying admission? If his hands are tied by law, and he ONLY lets a husband, wife, and children have the discount, then all he is doing is following a rule book. Who knows if he likes doing it, maybe he has orders to strictly follow the guidelines. The people weren't told they couldn't enter, just that they didn't qualify for a discount. If they have proof they were discriminated against, they should seek justice. If this guy has a personal agenda, they should try to get him fired too.

 

[ChefChiTown]

Re: Lesbians parents of 3 kids denied family admission rate at pool because they're n

You say this...


...but then you say this, every time:


It's just a few dollars. It's just a title. It's just a front seat on the bus. Et cetera...this is what I mean by "oppose". Perhaps marginalize would be more appropriate?

I don't oppose equal rights. I just think that people have such a ridiculous and unrealistic defintion of equal rights and this issue of crying over a few dollars at a community swimming pool is a perfect example.

I've said this in other threads, but people are letting their quest for equal rights get out of hand and it's slowly becoming 100% laughable and ridiculous. Nobody is ever going to have equal rights; nobody. Why? Because, there will always be a minority and there will always be people who find some ultimately meaningless thing to complain about. It's never going to end; ever.

I don't see civil rights as at all meaningless in the long run. And it is about civil rights - it's about a law that says "You get less" - in this case, recognition as a family unit (at least according to the director; I haven't looked into the Idaho laws personally). Less, because...? Gays, ick. It doesn't matter whether or not the family in question are being drama-hounds for their own sakes (which I get the feeling you feel that they are, and I won't argue with you one way or the other on that). And now we can lead right into the California court/gay marriage thread, as most of the arguments are going to be the same...

What exactly is a "family" anyway? Who decides? What exactly is the criteria that has to be met in order to be considered family? Is it...

- Marriage? Only married people can be considered a family?
- Engagement? You have to at least be engaged to be considered a family?
- Long-term Relationship? You have to at least be in a long-term relationship to be considered a family?
- Children? You can't be considered a family unless you have children?

But then, what about all of the variables? What if a man and a woman have been dating for 5 years and have a child together, but they are not yet married? Are they a family or no?

Or, what if a married couple has a child together, but gets a divorce after the birth of the child and the two adults find other partners to be with and spend the rest of their lives with them? Are they a family or no?

Or, what if a straight man marries a homosexual woman, just for the benefits of marriage? Are they a family or no?

The list can go on and on and on, which is why it's ridiculous to me when people dissect every little situtation just to try and find some civil rights issue that they can get upset about.

FACT: Everybody gets discriminated against, in one form or another, every single day.

 

[hillhopper]

Re: Lesbians parents of 3 kids denied family admission rate at pool because they're n

yeah yeah, the law on his side blah blah. the thing is, we're talking about a few bucks here. why make a big scene in front of the kids, the other peoples' kids, and other families there too. for the sake of the business and coming from a manager as well, its in the best interest of the business and atmosphere to let them go on and explain it (if you have to) to the owner or manager of the park. thats just no way to run a business.

This is exactly what I was thinking...why rile people up about something that doesn't effect him personally. Does every one think being a lesbian or gay is a disease? Was he afraid that more people might ask for the reduced rate and come in posing as same sex couples? I don't know how good his business is that he couldn't use a few more customer, discount or not...Please. Hopefully the bad press will take a bite out of his bottom line, of course the general public in this red state is probably thrilled he did this.

This guy is an asshole through and through and this touches a nerve for me, having been discriminated against myself repeatedly for being in a same sex relationship. We aren't leppers, just people who love who we love.

 

[Boothbabe]

Re: Lesbians parents of 3 kids denied family admission rate at pool because they're n

This may sound strange coming from me but I don't see this as a gay right issue (altho it is a part of it). To me this is more about the state wanting to define what a family is. Family isn't about blood ties or biology.

 

[hillhopper]

Re: Lesbians parents of 3 kids denied family admission rate at pool because they're n

This may sound strange coming from me but I don't see this as a gay right issue (altho it is a part of it). To me this is more about the state wanting to define what a family is. Family isn't about blood ties or biology.

Well said. The asshole denying the discount wasn't an authority to make a decision to define a family. Who is he? He's not a judge answering a petition to make a decision on the definition for the state of Idaho...Just a jerk harrassing two women and their children because he doesn't approve.

Look at the last line : "But Monica Hopkins of the American Civil Liberties Union in Boise says state code defines marriage but has no universal definition of a family.
"
So he could take issue with the 'marriage' but he shouldn't have been able to 'define' family...these kids were either one of the women's legal children, making them....FAMILY!
This asshole was twisting things to discriminate....an old story of wrongful actions I know....it just get tiresome.

 

[Rattrap]

Re: Lesbians parents of 3 kids denied family admission rate at pool because they're n

I've said this in other threads, but people are letting their quest for equal rights get out of hand and it's slowly becoming 100% laughable and ridiculous. Nobody is ever going to have equal rights; nobody. Why? Because, there will always be a minority and there will always be people who find some ultimately meaningless thing to complain about. It's never going to end; ever.

True.

FACT: Everybody gets discriminated against, in one form or another, every single day.

Also true. We'll never have true equality. We'll never have a perfect country, a perfect government, never be rid of psychopathic killers - life will never be perfect. But that doesn't mean we should stop striving for it. That's what the United States is supposed to be about, is it not? We are going to keep striving for "it", and while it may never be obtained, we do make progress. Just look at the differences between today and fifty years ago, a hundred years ago, two hundred years ago. It won't be long before the whole same-sex couple concept is just as accepted as an interracial marriage, another domino on the road. And yeah, there'll probably be someone else that pops up in their wake, crying some form of discrimination asking to be fixed.

But it takes people fighting for progress to happen. Sometimes over trivial things to get attention.

What exactly is a "family" anyway? Who decides? What exactly is the criteria that has to be met in order to be considered family? Is it...

- Marriage? Only married people can be considered a family?
- Engagement? You have to at least be engaged to be considered a family?
- Long-term Relationship? You have to at least be in a long-term relationship to be considered a family?
- Children? You can't be considered a family unless you have children?

These questions are all very valid, and should be questions the director of this pool is asking himself. Who's to say some teenager babysitting a toddler doesn't just invite his girlfriend along and claim they're a family? If a "family" discount is going to be their business practice, they should be ready to accept any and all forms of families or not offer the discount at all - in my opinion. Doing otherwise gets them bad publicity, as they are finding out now.

This may sound strange coming from me but I don't see this as a gay right issue (altho it is a part of it). To me this is more about the state wanting to define what a family is. Family isn't about blood ties or biology.

In this particular instance, you're right, though it's typically the same-sex couple that is denied "familial" rights, such as marriage or adoption (if I'm not mistaken?). In this case, this family was denied something everyone else gets because either Idaho state law doesn't like gay people, the State Foundation doesn't like gay people, or the director doesn't like gay people. If the former two, it's something worth changing. If the latter, well, a bigot's a bigot and you just shouldn't give him your money.

Look at the last line : "But Monica Hopkins of the American Civil Liberties Union in Boise says state code defines marriage but has no universal definition of a family.
"
So he could take issue with the 'marriage' but he shouldn't have been able to 'define' family...these kids were either one of the women's legal children, making them....FAMILY!

And this is something important to keep in mind - the law doesn't say anything about family, this State Foundation apparently does. If the director was able to offer the family discount without penalty to himself, then he was acting on his own bent and deserves the poor rep. If otherwise, then the State Foundation or whoever placed those penalties in place need to be looked at/changed.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

Re: Lesbians parents of 3 kids denied family admission rate at pool because they're n

Well said. The asshole denying the discount wasn't an authority to make a decision to define a family. Who is he? He's not a judge answering a petition to make a decision on the definition for the state of Idaho...Just a jerk harrassing two women and their children because he doesn't approve.

Look at the last line : "But Monica Hopkins of the American Civil Liberties Union in Boise says state code defines marriage but has no universal definition of a family.
"
So he could take issue with the 'marriage' but he shouldn't have been able to 'define' family...these kids were either one of the women's legal children, making them....FAMILY!
This asshole was twisting things to discriminate....an old story of wrongful actions I know....it just get tiresome.

Maybe he is, maybe he was following orders, maybe he just misunderstood the rules. I still would like to know if he has done this to single parents, or unconventional families. But the rest of your post says it all...there is no definition, so if they feel they have a law suit, they should file one, but then again, how do we know that they didn't make an issue out of it. Maybe if the legal mother of the children would have said, I'm divorced these are my children, she would have got the discount. Or, I adopted/was artificially impregnated, there is no "father" so to speak of, she would have gotten it. Maybe they're getting what they wanted...publicity to try and change a law.

 

[ChefChiTown]

Re: Lesbians parents of 3 kids denied family admission rate at pool because they're n

Well said. The asshole denying the discount wasn't an authority to make a decision to define a family. Who is he? He's not a judge answering a petition to make a decision on the definition for the state of Idaho...Just a jerk harrassing two women and their children because he doesn't approve.

Look at the last line : "But Monica Hopkins of the American Civil Liberties Union in Boise says state code defines marriage but has no universal definition of a family.
"
So he could take issue with the 'marriage' but he shouldn't have been able to 'define' family...these kids were either one of the women's legal children, making them....FAMILY!
This asshole was twisting things to discriminate....an old story of wrongful actions I know....it just get tiresome.

It gets just as tiresome for people to cry "discrimination" when something like this happens. I get discriminated against every day, but I don't make it habit to publicly embarass everybody who doesn't accept every single little detail about me.

The person who denied these women and these kids a discounted "family" price admission was in complete position to make such a decision as well. As an employee of the foundation, they are given the authority to make such a decision. Just like a bouncer at a bar...they have the authority to either let you in or refuse to allow you inside. That is part of their responsibility and authority.

And, with the argument that Boise doesn't have a universal definition of a family, there lies a problem with using that as support for these women. That problem? If there is no defintion of a family, then nobody can even receive a family discount in the first place, let alone get denied, as there is no definition or guideline as to what or who qualifies as a family.

 

[tartanterrier]

Re: Lesbians parents of 3 kids denied family admission rate at pool because they're n

I would say the familly are right because as long as they are there not
to do any harm,then they should be accepted everywhere.