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Lost Religion!
- Thread starter Nester6
- Start date
Too bad it took me 50 fuckin years to figure out!
L3ggy
Special Operations FOX-HOUND
So this makes you 60-70?
hedonis
I can set my own custom title!
Just out of curiosity when you say, "no more guilt, no more gods" is that an indication that you choose not to believe because you went through a lot of personal reflection and you made a choice that seemed right for you? Or is it merely a tactical move on your part because it just made life easier and more convenient for you now that you don't believe anymore and some of the perceived guilt that went with believing is gone? Or is it something else?
Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
The acceptance of atheism is in and of itself a religion....the contention that God does not exist. I'd be more capable of embracing agnosticism....the belief that whether there is or isn't a God is of no consequence to the way we should lead our lives.
I love the quote by Carl Sagan (paraphrasing) "It is impossible for me to believe in an all-powerful, all-knowing God that would make something as imperfect as a human being and then blame us for his mistake".
Religion is, as Marx said, the "opiate of the masses" and is largely bullshit designed by those in power to dominate its citizenry. Anyway, congratulations on your new-found liberation and resulting peace of mind.
:glugglug:
I love the quote by Carl Sagan (paraphrasing) "It is impossible for me to believe in an all-powerful, all-knowing God that would make something as imperfect as a human being and then blame us for his mistake".
Religion is, as Marx said, the "opiate of the masses" and is largely bullshit designed by those in power to dominate its citizenry. Anyway, congratulations on your new-found liberation and resulting peace of mind.
:glugglug:
Becks...poamr
Be careful what you wish for, it might come true!
I haven't been to church in years. I have my reasons. I believe in God, though. Sort of. It's hard to explain.
Great post - IMO.
geraldhp42
Searching for Freeones enlightenment.
This is something I posted last year, but I thought it applies.
I know that for the most part I'll be discussing this in the context of Christianity, but it's not limited to that. In other words, don't be a pedantic anal retentive SOB and try to get on a high horse about how I keep things in terms of a specific monotheistic religion involving a God of the omni-predicates. I already know that, and it's because it's a pain in the ass trying to keep everything in general terms. If I was writing a formal philosophy paper things would be different; this is for a forum. I think there's a difference in what to expect.
About six years ago I was practicing Christian. Or at least trying to be, I should say. About four years ago upon some deep reflection I decided that deep down I really didn't really have any faith. I was in a state of trying to make myself believe something. After some consideration, I decided to stop trying. I stopped playing a game with religion. I stopped putting on a hypocritical façade of being a spiritual person, and I walked away.
Now, unlike most people who I have encountered with this type of story, I don't hold any special hostility towards religion. I don't spend my time looking up criticisms of the Bible, bashing Christians, accusing organized as being a crutch for the weak, or any of the other activities usually associated with militant skeptics out there. I don't look down at people who do have faith and try to live the way they feel God wants them to. I respect their beliefs. Probably more than that, there's probably a feeling of jealousy mixed in there. I wish I could believe, I just don't. When people discuss their faith with me I don't object. I think part of me does believe in God. At the very least I'm afraid of going to Hell. But then I've always felt that's not the healthiest approach. I figure that God doesn't want people going to Him for fire insurance. Sometimes such talks make me feel a bit uncomfortable, especially if I'm told that I should pray for reassurance when I'm having one of my turns, or that going to Church would be good for me, or something like that. The reason it makes me uncomfortable is because part of me wishes I could do that, but I know that to agree to it would make me a liar. But I also know in the back corner of my mind I really don't want to come out and say no to it.
I've already mentioned that I don't mind people discussing their faith around me. Maybe it's due to my own inner struggles and that while I don't agree, I understand. I don't know.
I do object when other people object their discussions. There's the classical "don't force your beliefs on me." "Religion is personal, keep it yourself." "Other people don't like hearing about it." Well, let's see. Telling someone not to force their beliefs on other people is a belief you're forcing on other people. That's always been a pet peeve of mine. Yes, it's a convenient answer. Yes it sounds good. Sorry, it's a self-contradiction. And all three objections listed are specifically applied to religion, but there's nothing inherent to any of them that limits them to such. You could substitute just about any social structure, theory, activity, what have you and the ideas are still more or less meaningful. Why does religion get the special treatment? Yeah, we've all ran into the loud mouth preacher waving his Bible around with his neatly parted hair and shining teeth. We all know some hypocrites out there who smile and praise the Lord one minute and then stab you in the back the next.
But there's assholes every where. There's nothing special about the religious ones.
I've always felt one big problem with most discussions is a lack of agreement of a meta-language. Actually, more than that: there's the complete lack of acknowledgment of there being a problem of meta-language to consider. Let's say ideology A has belief x. Ideology B implies not-x. B then tries to explain to A how x is false and not-x is true. However, since it is in the context of A, the arguments presented aren't really meaningful to B. For a rebuttal of x, it either needs to be shown that x is inconsistent with B, or there needs to a meta-language A' adopted that provides either an area of common agreement of A and B, or has principles that A and B were derived from. And no I couldn't make that any more confusing than that if I tried.
One of the contributing factors to the crisis of faith that led to my rejection of it was an inability to make judgment calls against people. The teachings I had heard told me to be firm in my conviction, and that anyone who had not accepted Christ was on the highway to hell, no if's, and's, or but's. Whenever there was a moment of people telling me that they held to a different idea or didn't feel inclined to really have a firm opinion on such matters, I really couldn't find it within me to argue with them. They had an answer that worked for them, they were satisfied, they weren't hurting anyone. I didn't see what the problem was. I could say what I believed, but I also never made any claims that I was absolutely right. Well, maybe I did, but each time I felt like a jackass afterwards.
A few times some friends told me they were gay or bi. Each time, despite years of being told that I needed to try to save them, I just shrugged and accepted it. Well, not even accepted. I didn't see what there was to accept. They were gay, so what. Same person I had known for however long. Now, if they had said they liked "So Happy Together" by the Turtles then we would have had problems.
I'm not a relativist. I don't believe that morals and ethics are a matter of opinion. I do think there's an absolute truth out there. I just don't know what it is, and I'm not sure anyone can ever know what it is. The best anyone can do is figure out what works for them and lets them live and let live in peace.
I know that for the most part I'll be discussing this in the context of Christianity, but it's not limited to that. In other words, don't be a pedantic anal retentive SOB and try to get on a high horse about how I keep things in terms of a specific monotheistic religion involving a God of the omni-predicates. I already know that, and it's because it's a pain in the ass trying to keep everything in general terms. If I was writing a formal philosophy paper things would be different; this is for a forum. I think there's a difference in what to expect.
About six years ago I was practicing Christian. Or at least trying to be, I should say. About four years ago upon some deep reflection I decided that deep down I really didn't really have any faith. I was in a state of trying to make myself believe something. After some consideration, I decided to stop trying. I stopped playing a game with religion. I stopped putting on a hypocritical façade of being a spiritual person, and I walked away.
Now, unlike most people who I have encountered with this type of story, I don't hold any special hostility towards religion. I don't spend my time looking up criticisms of the Bible, bashing Christians, accusing organized as being a crutch for the weak, or any of the other activities usually associated with militant skeptics out there. I don't look down at people who do have faith and try to live the way they feel God wants them to. I respect their beliefs. Probably more than that, there's probably a feeling of jealousy mixed in there. I wish I could believe, I just don't. When people discuss their faith with me I don't object. I think part of me does believe in God. At the very least I'm afraid of going to Hell. But then I've always felt that's not the healthiest approach. I figure that God doesn't want people going to Him for fire insurance. Sometimes such talks make me feel a bit uncomfortable, especially if I'm told that I should pray for reassurance when I'm having one of my turns, or that going to Church would be good for me, or something like that. The reason it makes me uncomfortable is because part of me wishes I could do that, but I know that to agree to it would make me a liar. But I also know in the back corner of my mind I really don't want to come out and say no to it.
I've already mentioned that I don't mind people discussing their faith around me. Maybe it's due to my own inner struggles and that while I don't agree, I understand. I don't know.
I do object when other people object their discussions. There's the classical "don't force your beliefs on me." "Religion is personal, keep it yourself." "Other people don't like hearing about it." Well, let's see. Telling someone not to force their beliefs on other people is a belief you're forcing on other people. That's always been a pet peeve of mine. Yes, it's a convenient answer. Yes it sounds good. Sorry, it's a self-contradiction. And all three objections listed are specifically applied to religion, but there's nothing inherent to any of them that limits them to such. You could substitute just about any social structure, theory, activity, what have you and the ideas are still more or less meaningful. Why does religion get the special treatment? Yeah, we've all ran into the loud mouth preacher waving his Bible around with his neatly parted hair and shining teeth. We all know some hypocrites out there who smile and praise the Lord one minute and then stab you in the back the next.
But there's assholes every where. There's nothing special about the religious ones.
I've always felt one big problem with most discussions is a lack of agreement of a meta-language. Actually, more than that: there's the complete lack of acknowledgment of there being a problem of meta-language to consider. Let's say ideology A has belief x. Ideology B implies not-x. B then tries to explain to A how x is false and not-x is true. However, since it is in the context of A, the arguments presented aren't really meaningful to B. For a rebuttal of x, it either needs to be shown that x is inconsistent with B, or there needs to a meta-language A' adopted that provides either an area of common agreement of A and B, or has principles that A and B were derived from. And no I couldn't make that any more confusing than that if I tried.
One of the contributing factors to the crisis of faith that led to my rejection of it was an inability to make judgment calls against people. The teachings I had heard told me to be firm in my conviction, and that anyone who had not accepted Christ was on the highway to hell, no if's, and's, or but's. Whenever there was a moment of people telling me that they held to a different idea or didn't feel inclined to really have a firm opinion on such matters, I really couldn't find it within me to argue with them. They had an answer that worked for them, they were satisfied, they weren't hurting anyone. I didn't see what the problem was. I could say what I believed, but I also never made any claims that I was absolutely right. Well, maybe I did, but each time I felt like a jackass afterwards.
A few times some friends told me they were gay or bi. Each time, despite years of being told that I needed to try to save them, I just shrugged and accepted it. Well, not even accepted. I didn't see what there was to accept. They were gay, so what. Same person I had known for however long. Now, if they had said they liked "So Happy Together" by the Turtles then we would have had problems.
I'm not a relativist. I don't believe that morals and ethics are a matter of opinion. I do think there's an absolute truth out there. I just don't know what it is, and I'm not sure anyone can ever know what it is. The best anyone can do is figure out what works for them and lets them live and let live in peace.
ChefChiTown
The secret ingredient? MY BALLS
I am not a true believer, but I am also not an atheist. There have been moments in my life in which I believed in a God, but there have also been moments in my life where the opposite was true.
I don't have the answers and neither does anybody else. That's why I just live my life, day by day and deal with it. God or no God...I'll still be me, so fuck it.
I don't have the answers and neither does anybody else. That's why I just live my life, day by day and deal with it. God or no God...I'll still be me, so fuck it.
Legzman
what the fuck you lookin at?
:thumbsup:
Peter Gazinya
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
Congratulations! :hatsoff: I am very happy for you. Now, at the polls, vote for anything except a Republican. The conservative christian right has taken over the party and is packing the legislature and judiciary with christian conservatives who will do everything in their power to impose their intolerant belief system upon us all and strip us of every right they believe to be wrong (contraception, abortion rights, gay rights, sex education, PORNOGRAPHY, lack of censorship, woman's rights, minority rights, freedom in general)
Vote for a Democrat, Libertarian (preferably), independent, Mickey Mouse, a Transformer, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, Jason from Friday the 13th, ANYTHING but a Republican. This, from a devout Reaganite who has seen a once great party lose their way. They no longer stand for small government, low taxes, states rights, or freedom and are viciously and aggressively pursuing their authoritarian neoconservative agenda with nary a concern for your freedom and complete disdain of this country's constitution.
Thank you.
A little of both. After a lifetime of religion, religion that brow beats self esteem and inflicted guilt as a control method, I finally rejected such "blows to one's self esteem." After years of praying, I saw no evidence of god. With my reason being my sole guidance, I abandoned spiritual life only to find further contentment in my life. However, that is my perception.
Wonderfully stated.
God or no god, I'll still be me so "FUCK IT!" My feelings exactly after a priest once told me, "Well you already abandoned your beliefs" I thought, "You are fuckin right!" Ever since, Fuck religion> Good job priest!!!!
With all that said and being an athiest, I am still a VERY STRONG Republican! I believe we'd be much, much worse off with the likes of Hillary's or other crazy liberal tax and spend Democrats. Thank you.
I strongly disagree.
Atheism is, purely by definition of the word, the absence of religion. I suppose the confusion here is really the difference between "believing there is no God", and "not believing there is a God". The former could mislead one to think that their "belief" is, as you suggest, also a religion. The later excludes that possibility.
If someone asked you about unicorns, would you say "I believe there are no unicorns", or would it be more honest to say "I do not believe in unicorns"? These are two different answers. Nobody disbelieves in unicorns purely as a matter of personal faith. If you believe that unicorns do not exist, then may I say that you a member of the "No unicorns" religion? Is it a matter of faith that unicorns do not exist? Can I come along to your non-unicorn church with you tomorrow?
Member2019
1,000 posts to go for my own user title!
Spirituality and religion are separate ...
First off, to question one post ...
Republicans aren't the answer to Democrat taxation, they are part of the problem (and can be just as bad at times).
But you did address the fact Republicans and the "religious right" are not the same.
Thank you for doing that, although many of us just decided to become Libertarians and address other issues as well.
In the same regard, spirituality and religion are separate as well.
Organized religion is not bad, but it can be a flawed and political construct of man.
There are many, many good churches that do far more charity than a good number of selfish non-profits.
In fact, one way I tell the difference between a "good church" and a "bad church" is how much charity they actually do.
Not just charity monetarily, but how much they engage their own members in helping with their time and money.
"Bad churches" are focused on membership, preaching their word as the truth more than others, and in general just beating people with words, not actions.
I have no problem with religion if it helps people better themselves.
But I do have a problem with people who better themselves and think -- no, forcefully believe -- I must do the same.
I didn't need some set of "rules" to better my own values and actions.
Most Christians who want to "share their faith" with me don't ever attempt a 2nd time.
First off, to question one post ...
Then why are you a Republican and not a Libertarian?
Republicans aren't the answer to Democrat taxation, they are part of the problem (and can be just as bad at times).
But you did address the fact Republicans and the "religious right" are not the same.
Thank you for doing that, although many of us just decided to become Libertarians and address other issues as well.
In the same regard, spirituality and religion are separate as well.
Organized religion is not bad, but it can be a flawed and political construct of man.
There are many, many good churches that do far more charity than a good number of selfish non-profits.
In fact, one way I tell the difference between a "good church" and a "bad church" is how much charity they actually do.
Not just charity monetarily, but how much they engage their own members in helping with their time and money.
"Bad churches" are focused on membership, preaching their word as the truth more than others, and in general just beating people with words, not actions.
I have no problem with religion if it helps people better themselves.
But I do have a problem with people who better themselves and think -- no, forcefully believe -- I must do the same.
I didn't need some set of "rules" to better my own values and actions.
Most Christians who want to "share their faith" with me don't ever attempt a 2nd time.
Roughneck
Stick with Freeones
That's NOT true.
Atheism lacks every one of the characteristics of religion. At most, atheism doesn’t explicitly exclude most of them, but the same can be said for almost anything. Thus, it’s not possible to call atheism a religion. It can be part of a religion, but it can’t be a religion by itself. They are completely different categories: atheism is the absence of one particular belief while religion is a complex web of traditions and beliefs.
I won't even bother getting into details about "strong atheism" and "weak atheism".
That said:
Love that quote...
cheers,
R. (a member of the "Atheist in a foxhole" club)
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