Overrated.

[MrJerry]

I believe that the context needs to be implied in this case. Afterall, you are giving a reference to something (in fact, someone) which is by far more complex than, let's say the speed of two cars at a given moment. So if you start a conversation on something, it is afterall your responsibility to set the topic clear. Also, I can not agree with you on the polls. I don't care what any poll outcome will be, I will not automatically change my mind just because I may find myself in the minor group. But I will of course, respect other people's opinion.

 

[babalu47]

blueballs?

 

[Hot Mega]

I can not agree with you on the polls. I don't care what any poll outcome will be,

Well, polls have their place and while taking a poll to decide how to solve a problem with health care is bad use of polling, there is no better use of polling than to assess whether there is a consensus on the appeal of someone's artwork.

That doesn't nullify the minority opinion, it just validates a majority opinion for that moment in time. Afterall, gold medals are awarded in allot of cases by polling.

 

[BlueBalls]

It's nice to see a discussion came into being after my drunken rant, keep up the good work fella's :hatsoff:

blueballs?

Yes?

 

[titsrock]

I just put the "Huhs" over the top!

 

[calpoon]

Not everything. 25 lbs. weighs more than 20 lbs. for example. One car travels 1/4 mile faster/quicker than another. Those are objective tests...but the quality of something being overrated (or underrated) is a matter of deserved, positive attention IMO.

Remember the zen koan: If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

If you have an equation and no one is around to calculate it, does it result in an incremental number sequence?

That is an imaginary supposition, not a objective statement.

Besides, someone in space would tell you that a 25lb mass object and a 20lb mass object both have the same weight and that would be true. weight is the force of gravity on an object, which is a subjective phenomenon, as is a persons ability to gauge an objects mass. you only think that 25 pounds is heavier than 20 because it seems heavier to you, but if you couldn't tell which one was heavier, then you wouldn't know which one had more mass.

Same with the car. A dial tells you that it is traveling 1/4 mile faster than another car. From your point of view the gauge is the objective measurement and you are reading it subjectively. If you were to observe two cars traveling past you, you could only tell their relative position from each other, not how fast they were going.

A fact and an objective experience aren't the same thing. A fact is merely something that can be demonstrated by different subjective experiences. An objective experience is something that happens not only regardless of any different subjective experiences, but it doesn't require any subjective experiences to happen.

the tree falls and it makes a sound. that is objective. someone hearing that sound is subjective.

The earth revolves around the sun; that's a fact.

But it's not an objective statement because no one has ever directly observed it happening.

Newton's laws of motion are objective statements, because so far, everyone has experienced them in exactly the same way.

 

[Hot Mega]

Remember the zen koan: If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

If you have an equation and no one is around to calculate it, does it result in an incremental number sequence?

That is an imaginary supposition, not a objective statement.

Besides, someone in space would tell you that a 25lb mass object and a 20lb mass object both have the same weight and that would be true. weight is the force of gravity on an object, which is a subjective phenomenon, as is a persons ability to gauge an objects mass. you only think that 25 pounds is heavier than 20 because it seems heavier to you, but if you couldn't tell which one was heavier, then you wouldn't know which one had more mass.

Same with the car. A dial tells you that it is traveling 1/4 mile faster than another car. From your point of view the gauge is the objective measurement and you are reading it subjectively. If you were to observe two cars traveling past you, you could only tell their relative position from each other, not how fast they were going.

A fact and an objective experience aren't the same thing. A fact is merely something that can be demonstrated by different subjective experiences. An objective experience is something that happens not only regardless of any different subjective experiences, but it doesn't require any subjective experiences to happen.

the tree falls and it makes a sound. that is objective. someone hearing that sound is subjective.

Don't you love questions that sound like they have no answer?

Of course a felled tree in the forest makes a sound because we know what happens when other trees have fallen.

It's not imaginary anything. We know if we happened upon a fallen tree in the in the forest it undoubtedly made sound whether we were there to hear it or not.

The whole basis of our scientific world is that we have demonstrable theories which produce consistent results in like circumstances. Certainly no one has ever traveled to the sun but it is an accepted theory that the sun is appx. 93 million miles from the earth based on facts demonstrated in like circumstances.

Subjectivity is a product of the individual mind as opposed to the external world...period.

The weight of a mass is not subjective it's conditional but it's a fact that 25 lbs. is incrementally more than 20 lbs. whether it's represented in mass or not. For example, we don't need 25 lbs. of mass in order to represent it as measurement in some mathematical equation.

If two objects travel the same distance over two different times, one object has factually traveled faster than the other pure and simple.

 

[calpoon]

If two objects travel the same distance over two different times, one object has factually traveled faster than the other pure and simple.

but you just made that up. it is wholly the product of your subjective imagination, because you aren't describing two real objects that you've experienced, you are talking about two hypothetical objects that you haven't.

didn't you read what I said? facts and objective experiences aren't the same thing.

the things that we are talking about right now are just words and ideas in our heads, we aren't out measuring the velocity and mass of objects. none of these statements are descriptions about objective reality. Words and numbers are just a description of a thing, they aren't the thing being described and they aren't real. they only exists in the subjective human imagination.

and even if you tell me that you had experienced a thing, it would be subjective on your part because it would be a second hand experience, because it was just a memory and not a real experience. For me it would be twice removed, because I would just be hearing your talk about it and never have had experienced it at all.

 

[Hot Mega]

but you just made that up. it is wholly the product of your subjective imagination, because you aren't describing two real objects that you've experienced, you are talking about two hypothetical objects that you haven't.

didn't you read what I said? facts and objective experiences aren't the same thing.

the things that we are talking about right now are just words and ideas in our heads, we aren't out measuring the velocity and mass of objects. none of these statements are descriptions about objective reality. Words and numbers are just a description of a thing, they aren't the thing being described and they aren't real. they only exists in the subjective human imagination.

and even if you tell me that you had experienced a thing, it would be subjective on your part because it would be a second hand experience, because it was just a memory and not a real experience. For me it would be twice removed, because I would just be hearing your talk about it and never have had experienced it at all.

Wow. "objective experiences"?

I really don't know where to begin but let me ask you this...Do you believe the sum of 25lbs + 25lbs is "subjective" unless you actually weigh two objects together who's weight is 25lbs a piece?? Because (among other things) that's what you just wrote.

If you believe that then I'm pretty much done with the discussion and we'll have to agree to disagree.

But subjectivity has little to do with imagined circumstances. It is the product of an individual persons perspective or belief which stems from how they view things. Adding the numbers of multiple values or measurements is not subject to my individual viewpoint...ergo, it's not subjective. 2+2=4 to you, me or anyone else who understands the principles of addition.

 

[calpoon]

yes, that is what I am saying. that numbers are subjective and imaginary and not an actual description of reality. that's OK, if we are done with this discussion. It's ludicrously off topic anyway. But you should continue it with a scientist, I think that most of them would agree that they are talking about subjective interpretations of reality and that they no one can talk about objective reality.

 

[rwill25]

BlueBalls is underrated! :bowdown:

 

[Hot Mega]

But you should continue it with a scientist

"calpoon" uh, my educational background and post military work history has been primarily dealing with scientists.

 

[Sicario]

But I just want to ask you, the good people of FreeOnes, what does Overrated mean to you?

redundant. :tongue: