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Police Assaulted Bystander Who Died During G20 Protests

CunningStunts

I changed my middle-name to Freeones
Sounds like that would have been a great day to call in sick.
 

Boothbabe

I eat, sleep, and live FreeOnes!
After reading several threads about police violence I would like to believe these are all isolated incidents but unfortunately it seems like there's a trend going on amongst police officers in regards to violent behaviour. I sometimes get the idea the whole world is turning into a big police state. Has it always been like this or are we just more aware of it now because of the internet?
 

Facial_King

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
After reading several threads about police violence I would like to believe these are all isolated incidents but unfortunately it seems like there's a trend going on amongst police officers in regards to violent behaviour. I sometimes get the idea the whole world is turning into a big police state. Has it always been like this or are we just more aware of it now because of the internet?

Oh, Chef will have to field that question!

(My guess is that it will be a nicer version of "You're a stupid sheep who believes everything you read." ;))
 

Lucky7000

I'm secretly in love with my sister
After reading several threads about police violence I would like to believe these are all isolated incidents but unfortunately it seems like there's a trend going on amongst police officers in regards to violent behaviour. I sometimes get the idea the whole world is turning into a big police state. Has it always been like this or are we just more aware of it now because of the internet?

Bingo, and that goes for England in particular. It's still wrong to paint all police with the naughty brush since we're only having a couple handfulls of reports out of how many millions of police officers in the world? But regardless of that, the trend does seem to be a big nanny state syndrome.
 

Friday on my mind

Pain heals, chicks dig scars, Freeones lasts forever
I personally don't see how police brutality which is to answer the previous question not anything new is related to anything part of a "nanny state"."Nanny state" implies the state looking out for you not brutalizing you.While certainly not all police abuse their power IMO the truth is too many do.History teaches us that power corrupts and the courts and public have tolerated and allowed too much abuse with not enough sanctions for those who have abused their police powers and this is the inevitable result.
And also we have allowed certain groups to be more brutalized then others (you all should know who that means lol) thinking well as long as its only them I won't worry about it.That is flawed thinking IMO,if we allow anyone/group to be be abused it is a slippery slope which leads to all of us potentially being abused.
 

Lucky7000

I'm secretly in love with my sister
I personally don't see how police brutality which is to answer the previous question not anything new is related to anything part of a "nanny state"."Nanny state" implies the state looking out for you not brutalizing you.While certainly not all police abuse their power IMO the truth is too many do.History teaches us that power corrupts and the courts and public have tolerated and allowed too much abuse with not enough sanctions for those who have abused their police powers and this is the inevitable result.
And also we have allowed certain groups to be more brutalized then others (you all should know who that means lol) thinking well as long as its only them I won't worry about it.That is flawed thinking IMO,if we allow anyone/group to be be abused it is a slippery slope which leads to all of us potentially being abused.

The poster I quoted mentioned the world turning into a police state, and you can't have a nanny state without an overpowering police force. Nanny state implies you are a pet of the state; the state will make moral judgements on your behalf, but you are at the mercy of the state's leash.

Nobody is "allowed" to be abused, in the US we are all under equal protection under the law, we just need to maintain proper enforcement of the law.

Only a small fraction of police on active duty have had complaints against them, but even then I'd say that one abuse is one too many and the rules should be strictly and swiftly enforced.
 

Member2019

1,000 posts to go for my own user title!
Crowds and police ...

After reading several threads about police violence I would like to believe these are all isolated incidents but unfortunately it seems like there's a trend going on amongst police officers in regards to violent behaviour. I sometimes get the idea the whole world is turning into a big police state. Has it always been like this or are we just more aware of it now because of the internet?
No. It's been commonplace for centuries, but hardly been about a "police state."

Crowds tend to do things in ways that human beings would not normally act alone. Same thing for police. People are crowded together, supporting each other. Same thing for police.

The problem is when people are caught in-between, such as this man. The police are trying to enforce a push-back line, and they do not break their tight formation. One can argue that they should have for this man. Unfortunately, the police don't see it that way. Why?

Because protesters commonly use the "innocent bystander" tactic to break the police line. I'm not saying that is what this guy was doing, in fact, it sounds like he was an innocent bystander. But the key to some crowds is to rout the police, and one way to do that is to break their tight formations and lines. I've seen this done in video, a standard tactic, take advantage of police who do care, and then they are all routed (which only causes more police to arrive from other areas to control it).

Frankly, I like the Constitution we have here in the US, especially our Bill of Rights where the supremo, numero uno Amendment is The Right to Assemble. It is often over-sold as The Right to Free Speech, but a simple history lesson shows that Assembly and Press was it's main, staple purpose (Speech being a natural, supportive aspect).

Our police know and respect the right as unalienable. Sure, there are still some incidents. Some in the '60s in our South were sad, people using their state's rights to deny individual rights. There have been other incidents, like the shooting at Kent State University (although that is the poster case for not sending in the National Guard for control, and leaving it to state or local agencies, not military). There will always be cases.

But for the most part, the US has always been a nation of assembly, often unsolicited and, quite often, unwanted. We don't even make denying the Holocaust and the Nazi parties illegal. People say the US is "screwed up" for this and many other things, including our individualistic tendencies, which lead to violent tendencies, and our strong default of "innocent until proven guilty" which results in a lower conviction rate of other nations.

But it does mean, by default, police in the US do side with the rights of the civilian and innocent by default, and keep that in mind when trying to enforce the law. It's hardly flawless, but I do see a major difference in attitude -- even if those attitudes result in other statistics that people feel are "screwed up." But that's the story of the American experiment, a nation that has always been "screwed up" from the viewpoint of most other nations.
 

Sushi!

myFreeOnes.com: sign up for it now!
Re: Crowds and police ...

Frankly, I like the Constitution we have here in the US, especially our Bill of Rights where the supremo, numero uno Amendment is The Right to Assemble. It is often over-sold as The Right to Free Speech, but a simple history lesson shows that Assembly and Press was it's main, staple purpose (Speech being a natural, supportive aspect).


i second that.
 

Spleen

Banned?
Many people working in london were so terrified of the protesters, they completely forgot about the guys who were supposed to be protecting them...
 

Facial_King

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
Re: Crowds and police ...

Our police know and respect the right as unalienable. Sure, there are still some incidents. Some in the '60s in our South were sad, people using their state's rights to deny individual rights. There have been other incidents, like the shooting at Kent State University (although that is the poster case for not sending in the National Guard for control, and leaving it to state or local agencies, not military). There will always be cases.

...but when you have the police operating as paramilitary units, including equipment and tactics, the difference between them becomes largely semantic, a distinction without much of a difference.

But for the most part, the US has always been a nation of assembly, often unsolicited and, quite often, unwanted. We don't even make denying the Holocaust and the Nazi parties illegal. People say the US is "screwed up" for this and many other things, including our individualistic tendencies, which lead to violent tendencies, and our strong default of "innocent until proven guilty" which results in a lower conviction rate of other nations.

But it does mean, by default, police in the US do side with the rights of the civilian and innocent by default, and keep that in mind when trying to enforce the law. It's hardly flawless, but I do see a major difference in attitude -- even if those attitudes result in other statistics that people feel are "screwed up." But that's the story of the American experiment, a nation that has always been "screwed up" from the viewpoint of most other nations.

"But it does mean, by default, police in the US do side with the rights of the civilian and innocent by default, and keep that in mind when trying to enforce the law."

That is HIGHLY debatable.
 
There appears to be a video of at least part of the man's interactions with police.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/07/video-g20-police-assault

From that I get the feeling that the police believe he is trying to get in their way, two occasions the dogs run into him. Now this is in no way a defense of their actions which were totally unjustified but I think if we turn it round to look at things from their point of view, maybe they believed he was getting in the way of the dogs on pourpose in order to slow their progress up the road. I'm just speculating here but from that video it seems to me that this was the case.

Now to hit someone with the batton and then push them over who is not even facing you, is totally out of line, actually to hit them and push them over at all no matter if he had he's back turned or not is totally uncalled for. Those involved should be investigated and the proper punishment should be handed out. I doubt anything will happen because nothing ever does.

All I'm saying is in the heat of the moment with thousands of people to watch over mistakes are going to get made and in this case a fatal mistake. That's in no way taking any blame away from the officers involved they were totally wrong to act in that way.
 
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