Questioning the holocaust ... in Iran ...

[Member2019]

Since I live in a country were denying the holocaust is not illegal, a country of 8 million of Jewish faith and over 10 million of Islamic faith, a country is known for its endless, self-debates and lawyers ready to protect those who want to talk about the most popular of views, I have to raise the question ...

What does everyone thing about the conference in Iran to question the holocaust?

First point ... Iran claims it can only offer the conference there because it is illegal to deny it in many countries. I live in the US, where it is not only perfectly legal to do so, but we have such events every now and then, protected under free speech and it has even been supported (as legally necessary) by lawyers from the ACLU and other organizations. So why not in the US? Or somewhere else "free"?

Second point ... Iran is consistently ranked the highest in civil rights violations. Several Iranian leaders have openly stated that the holocaust must be questioned as it is the foundation of the state of Israel. The point here is that beyond just being "convenient," is Iran really a state known for its "free speech" and a place where people can "openly discuss"?

Better yet, what if someone (other than maybe a reporter or with the news) at the conference in Iran openly criticized the conference as a political sham. What would happen to them?

Poll: What do you think of the conference in Iran questioning the holocaust?
(as always, my polls are anonymous and no one can see your vote)
1. Sorely Needed: There was no holocaust or the numbers were heavily exaggerated
2. Free Speech: I know it happened, but I think it's an unbiased conference just asking the questions
3. Free Politics: Holocaust or not, Israeli should not exist and its okay to say that
4. Political Agenda: The conference has little to do with questioning and more with denying
5. Absolute Agenda: Despite the claims, the conference is filled with people who do want to destroy Israel
6. No Comment: I live in a country where it is illegal to deny the holocaust, so I will not vote
7. No Comment: Other

 

[jod0565]

It's unbelievable to me that something like this was even thought up in the first place.
Unfuckingbelievable!

 

[hedgehog]

Okay, Iran has a conferance questioning the holocaust. Iran has made its agenda known vis-a-vis its President saying that it was a lie.

They invite former KKK leader David Duke to speak. No surprise.

The fact that CNN gives this waste of flesh over 10 minutes of interview time is what seriously upsets me.

There is no room for anti-semitism on TV.

 

[Torre82]

There is never a doubt. Politics. Just.. too obvious. I'd have an exceedingly difficult time believing any other offer on that truth.. but I'm genuinely interested in opposing ideas. Then again, some issues DONT need opposing ideas or rationalizations. Drawing everyones attention to minute details and in different directions doesnt make the overall issue disappear.

::shrug:: I'm off to watch MST:3K. I think I'll watch.. the rest of Skydivers. Yeah. I couldnt get thru it the first time. Movie sucked too hard. Too much teeth on the suckage, too!

 

[YMIHERE]

Iran's leaders are, to use a technical clinical term, fucking nuts.

 

[pickles&cumquat]

Since he has vowed to wipe out Israel it does not surprise me that he would want to question the Holocaust.

It's unfortunate that there is still so much anti antisemitism in the world.

This sort of hate, and all others similar in nature shows just how far we have evolved as a species in our brief time on this planet.

 

[baltimoreguy]

the whole reason they are doing it is to get people to sympathize with the palistinians. They just decided to use 20 grit sandpaper and alchohol on open cuts to prove their point.

 

[Roughneck]

I believe:

4. Political Agenda: The conference has little to do with questioning and more with denying
5. Absolute Agenda: Despite the claims, the conference is filled with people who do want to destroy Israel

and a little bit of "Free Speech" (but not the way you've defined it for the purposes of the poll Prof.)

Part of my interest in WWII also involves the Holocaust. And as my research into the Holocaust grew, so did I start running into those unsavoury types who deny or diminish this ghastly event.

But I've also had the pleasure and honour of meeting some phenomenal researchers and true historians on this topic.

For more than a few years now, I've been sparring with these chaps on various internet boards : some run by holocaust deniers (such as CODOH and RODOH) and some run by apolitical fellows (such as Marcus Wendel's Axis History Forum)

cheers,

PS: I didn't vote because I couldn't choose multiple options and no one option seemed to fit the bill perfectly.

 

[calpoon]

I'm not really sure what the question is here. I don't think that it should be illegal to deny the holocaust. the point for me seems to be less about free speech and moreso about the fact that nearly all history is at least secondhand hearsay. (I didn't see the episode of CSI where they tested positive the GSR on john wilkes booth.) what I'm saying is that to insist that everyone prescribe to a single version of how things happened based on conclusive facts ignores the reality that no one does that in the first place already; whether we're talking about the bible, the holocaust, or George Washington chopping down the cherry tree.

The moral argument is irrelevant because we all know that everyone knows the holocaust did happen, and I don't believe that there is anyone outside of a comatose patient or brain damaged amnesiac that really thinks it didn't.

I voted for # 5. Absolute Agenda. They just want to attempt to make a logical (there's that word again -- see my post in the Draft thread) argument showing that Israel's sovereignty is illegitimate. there's really no point. without having to delve into the realm of fantasy there are plenty of real reasons that prove that argument, and the same can be said about pretty much any nation. No one cares.

 

[Roughneck]

Forgot to mention:

Want a great source on the Holocaust? Nothing beats Nizkor

 

[jdb67]

Talk about the Pot calling the Kettle Black!!!...

 

[the_pervert]

If you think the conference is about hating Jews and such, you need to actually research what the media says "holocaust denial' is all about. I thought it was all a pile of crap until I got curious enough to actually look into it. Real historical research involves doing your own research and checking people's sources, rather than reading and believing everything you see. The truth is that there were camps, but people like Jews and such were put there for the same reasons the US put Japanese americans in concentration camps. Some died of disease, old age and hard work, while and the end of the war some died of starvation due to the collapse of Germany's infrastructure at the end of the war due to allied air attacks (even people in German cities were starving) hence the pictues of starved bodies. Total dead in the camps (recorded by the Red Cross no less) was about 250,000, some of which were Jews. If you look into it for yourself, look at holocaust literature and read the Nuremburg trial proceedings, you will see that none of it stands up to simple logic. Think for yourselves. The media labels it hateful because they don't want you to give it a chance, and think it is the domain of people like in American History X and such. They know if you do look into it, you will see the truth and never believe them again.

 

[Phaeton]

Since I live in a country were denying the holocaust is not illegal, a country of 8 million of Jewish faith and over 10 million of Islamic faith, a country is known for its endless, self-debates and lawyers ready to protect those who want to talk about the most popular of views, I have to raise the question ...

Go read some history, my people were systematically wiped out, by Americans.

I am a Mingo Indian of the Iroquois Six Nations (look it up). And as a person who has grownup hearing what has happened to their people, I find this in poor taste.

 

[the_pervert]

I am a Mingo Indian of the Iroquois Six Nations (look it up). And as a person who has grownup hearing what has happened to their people, I find this in poor taste.

What you have heard is a lie.

 

[Roughneck]

If you think the conference is about hating Jews and such, you need to actually research what the media says "holocaust denial' is all about. I thought it was all a pile of crap until I got curious enough to actually look into it. Real historical research involves doing your own research and checking people's sources, rather than reading and believing everything you see. The truth is that there were camps, but people like Jews and such were put there for the same reasons the US put Japanese americans in concentration camps. Some died of disease, old age and hard work, while and the end of the war some died of starvation due to the collapse of Germany's infrastructure at the end of the war due to allied air attacks (even people in German cities were starving) hence the pictues of starved bodies. Total dead in the camps (recorded by the Red Cross no less) was about 250,000, some of which were Jews. If you look into it for yourself, look at holocaust literature and read the Nuremburg trial proceedings, you will see that none of it stands up to simple logic. Think for yourselves. The media labels it hateful because they don't want you to give it a chance, and think it is the domain of people like in American History X and such. They know if you do look into it, you will see the truth and never believe them again.

Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeealy?

Say, you aren't Scott Smith, are you?

cheers,

 

[the_pervert]

Yes, really. Congratulations on being a sheep and believing everything the media tells you.

 

[Phaeton]

Some died of disease, old age and hard work, while and the end of the war some died of starvation due to the collapse of Germany's infrastructure at the end of the war due to allied air attacks (even people in German cities were starving) hence the pictues of starved bodies.

Yeah..

And the Cambodians were sick of rice :thefinger

 

[Roughneck]

Yes, really. Congratulations on being a sheep and believing everything the media tells you.

Let me know if you're Smith.

It'll save us both time and effort.
If not, I've got time to knock your game outta the park


cheers,

 

[the_pervert]

How can you be so sure when you've never read a word of it? And I have no idea who Smith is.

 

[Roughneck]

How can you be so sure when you've never read a word of it?

Right. Let's get started...

Since you mentioned slave labor camps, I heartily recommend:
THE BUSINESS OF GENOCIDE; The SS, Slave Labor, and the Concentration Camps by Michael Thad Allen

Slave Labor
United States v. Erhard Milch, NMT vol. 2
http://www.mazal.org/archive/nmt/02/NMT02-T0355.htm

United States v. Oswald Pohl, et al. NMT vol. 5
http://www.mazal.org/archive/nmt/05/NMT05-T0195.htm

United States v. Friedrich Flick, et al. NMT vol. 6
http://www.mazal.org/archive/nmt/06/NMT06-F001.htm

United States v. Carl Krauch, et al. NMT vols. 7-8 (I.G. Farben case)
http://www.mazal.org/archive/nmt/07/NMT07-F001.htm

The Nazi Concentration Camp System and the SS-WVHA (Wirtschafts-Verwaltungshauptamt - the Economics and Administrative Department of the SS).
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=16879

I would've usually posted the entire articles, but some of them run into hundreds of pages and it'd be a waste of Freeones bandwidth.

Anyway, that's a "scratch" list of SOME of the things I've read (amongst hundreds of others). Sound good ol' top?

And I have no idea who Smith is.

Never mind. "Reverend" Smith is the chap who runs RODOH.



cheers,