Questioning the holocaust ... in Iran ...

[Roughneck]

For the first time, secrets of the Nazi Holocaust that have been hidden away for more than 60 years are finally being made available to the public. We’re not talking about a missing filing cabinet - we’re talking about thousands of filing cabinets, holding 50 million pages. It's Hitler’s secret archive.

The Nazis were famous for record keeping but what 60 Minutes found ran from the bizarre to the horrifying. This Holocaust history was discovered by the Allies in dozens of concentration camps, as Germany fell in the spring of 1945.

As correspondent Scott Pelley reports, the documents were taken to a town in the middle of Germany, called Bad Arolsen, where they were sorted, filed and locked way, never to be seen by the public until now.


The storerooms are immense: 16 miles of shelves holding the stories of 17 million victims – not only Jews, but slave laborers, political prisoners and homosexuals. To open the files is to see the Holocaust staring back like it was yesterday: strange pink Gestapo arrest warrants as lethal as a death sentence, jewelry lost as freedom ended at the gates of an extermination camp. Time stopped here in 1945.

Full story

Should be very interesting....


cheers,

 

[georges]

You're pushing it now. Arab brothers in arms? Crazy communist? Spit on people?

You want to talk about offensive statements: it's disgusting the lies that you put in my mouth Georges. You should be ashamed of yourself. He who somehow managed to still be around despite the anti-arab and anti-black comments you are now famous for making here.

Fox

Disgusting lies? You try to accuse me several of being anti arab and anti black which is not the case. As I said before I have something against people backing up terrorist government and any kind of scum. I have also a dislike for people who disrespect others and are unable to respect the customs and habits where they migrated in.
You questionned Pearl Harbor in that thread http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=88956&highlight=georges
You questionned the integrity people serving their country
http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=107538&page=4&highlight=**********
Some disagree a lot with you in that thread http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=3400&page=14&highlight=********** but you didn't bitch about them and because of you that thread was closed because of your unability to respect other opinions
Here is a lot about your dislike of the way of living in USA http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=103002&page=3&highlight=**********
Read what you wrote in that Israel Palestine thread in the last page http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=57425&page=6&highlight=**********
You are one of the very few who acknowledge max hardcore work
http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=30834&page=4&highlight=**********
Another thread closed because of you http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=7583&highlight=**********
Here is you backing up the UN as usual http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=95958&page=2&highlight=********** and you were owned by Prof
You spit on soldiers who die in Iraq, you spit on the administration that gave you your citizenship and you always question important things when there
are not really needs to do it. Point me where I am anti black or anti arab? If no don't make false statements and I have nothing against arabs or blacks. I don't twist people statements unlike you.

 

[ÆGEAN]

Iran...what can you say... let them do what they want.

i really hate political threads on this board.

 

[olivertoxxin]

it happend, and the jews need to get over it, we let pearl harbor go. they need to let it go. Stalin killed more of his own people then the nazi killed jews, and noone talks about that..

 

[Philbert]

it happend, and the jews need to get over it, we let pearl harbor go. they need to let it go. Stalin killed more of his own people then the nazi killed jews, and noone talks about that..

Obvious deep thinking went into that post...I missed Holocaust Day this year, but I did catch Pearl Harbour Day...Stalin didn't have little children hanged to see how long it took for them to die, using other little children forced to hold their legs and pull...or systematically line up grandmothers, fathers, children, mothers and just everyone alongside large pits and shoot them, then line up some more and shoot them, then...some of us get the idea, that calmly and systematically slaughtering millions of non combatant totally non aggressive ordinary citizens is a particularly insane viewpoint that should NEVER be ignored, and should be held up to all as a reminder that there is a point of no return, as is any genocidal activity.
Stalin didn't get a pass, there are Hauge trials still being held for Serb war criminals, and when ALL nations acknowledge a common humanity as a line not to be crossed there will be some human progress possible.

Georges...my congratulations on your new status as a Fox-free zone.
I have also been accused of racism, sexism, homophobia, and secret agendas by the same ...I live for the moment I am also granted Fox-free status!

 

[DevinnLaneLover]

Ok in my view it happened. Here's why I think so:

Everyone knows the german third reich was a stickler for keeping records. But I think most of those records were destroyed BUT there is the issue of the shoes?
Didn't the allies find a big warehouse packed with an estimated six million pairs of shoes belonging to the people that were murdered.
The question is - six million (roughly) people were murdered but how many were jews, the nazi's killed more than just jews after all.

I don't think anyone will ever know the real numbers.

I think it's believed that numbers killed (in "total") is 12 million. 6 Million were Jews, the rest were: gays, mentally handicapped people, invalids, Gypsies, Russians....

Of course we will never know the full amount. I think 12 million is probably too low.

 

[HeartBroker]

Short sweet and to the point.
1. The ACLU is worthless now.
2. It happened.
3. It's fine to discuss whether or not it occurred, I just wouldn't want to be the loser that tried to debate that point!
4. Ahmadinejad is likely to have an "accident" !

 

[georges]

I've posted the links to your racist points of view before (second post on the "interracial sex" thread), you've given your opinions about what should be done in the middle east many times, (bomb them, fight until those who oppose us are wiped off the planet etc)... I'm not obsessed with you so I'm not going to keep bringing your name up or fighting you - like you talk about threads being closed because of me: well let's look at this one. I say something you don't like, so you start throwing insults around. Sounds like I'm not the one trying to get the thread closed.
Anyway, like I said, I'm not obsessed with you and I have no animosity towards you since your words do more damage to your integrity than I ever could or would want to, so I'll just ignore you from now on and you can spout whatever insults or labels you want, I will just close my ears to your lies and I'm sure others will too. I guess if I'm not WITH you then I must be against you right?
It's so funny because I stand - on this issue, and on most - in the very middle. Halfway between Arabs and Westerners, Muslims and Christians - I don't believe either is right, I don't believe either is wrong, I don't believe either is EVIL. And to you - as extreme as you are - that makes me an extremist. That makes me ONE OF THEM. Like Bush, who said either you're with us or you're with them. Well you know what: I'm not with you. I don't support what the west is doing. And I'm not with them. I don't support their murder any more than ours. I'm in the middle. I believe in peace. I believe that every one of those arabs you call my "brothers in arms", despite the fact that I only speak English, Spanish and a little French, and have never been to my Dad's home country of Iran, is every bit as "wrong" as you are - if they believe in the kind of violence that you believe in.
So I won't click on your links, and I won't be talking to you again, and anyone who thinks for one second that you are not anti-arab or have severe issues with black people, can PM me and I'll show them, or just go back and look on those same threads you just quoted, plus the interracial sex thread. But I doubt I'll receive any PMs because I think, by now, everyone knows exactly what you stand for. Apparently I'm an "extremist" around here because I stand in the middle between the terrorists and the american soldiers. But everyone else respectfully acknowledges my opinion - even Prof and Roughneck throwing words like "fool" and "immature" never stoop to compare me to terrorists or call me a communist - as if "communist" is even an insult. But so inaccurate nevertheless, I never believed in communism and never will. It's like me calling you - as a conservative - a fascist. They're different things.
So I suggest you stick to the damn thread and quit throwing personal insults around. You started it, and it's fucking hilarious that the one person who wants to criticize the character of others is the one person who said interracial sex is dangerous because of the HIV problem, and all the excuses in the world can't exonerate you from that, because it was an "interracial sex" thread, and yours was the first post. At least I am honest about my views, Georges. Until you come out and tell everyone how you really feel about things - about arabs - about blacks - about everything - then you should just shhhhh, stop whining about what a terrible person I am. I am many things, and so are you, but I am honest about who I am, and you are not.
http://board.freeones.com/showpost.php?p=24534&postcount=2
Be honest. Tell us how you really feel. You don't have to pretend to be tolerant if you're not. But do, definitely, sort out your own issues before you try to go on and on and on about mine.
Every time you ever throw a personal insult around at me from now on, I'll simply reply, thanks Georges, nice to hear from you, have you gotten over your black person issues yet, and post that same link. It's the only one anyone needs to see. http://board.freeones.com/showpost.php?p=24534&postcount=2
No more off topic posts from me on this thread, guaranteed. I'd be glad to go back to talking about Iran, and I apologize, I don't think this was really relavant, though that link I posted speaks volumes.

My goal wasn't to agress or jump on you like a bandwagon. But sometimes your statements/views can agress or hurt your interlocutors. Fact is that terrorists are endoctrined to death and it is not with nice polite talks you will solve problems. I say the truth but you can't face it. Very few people agree with you and if they agree it is occassionnally. It is not question wether you are with me or against me but a matter of principles like respecting other opinions and not caricaturizing events as you often did. Otherwise I have no anonymisity towards you as well it is just some of your views that I find very disturbing and very borderline. Would I have issues with black/arab people, would I have been banned from the very beginning since I registered. People who know me here here 2003 so way before you registered, know that I have no issues with Black/Arab people so don't try to lie. I don't believe in violence but I can't like people who back up fundamentalists or terrorists.
I am enough honest for people who know me since 2003 and I am not afraid to voice my opinion when I disagree with someone.
About my post, just because you demand people checking before an interracial scene wether it is a black chick with a white guy or a black guy with a white chick it has a negative connotation, I don't think so. People who care of other people's health, realize that tests should be done regularly.

 

[om3ga]

No Comment

I have no qualms with an intelligent discussion on the Holocaust.

But I do not and will not trust Iran's leader who, if he had his way, would do this to the state of Israel

You're all free to disagree, but it's my opinion....

 

[Member2019]

It's amazing how the select, few, same people keep making this about US policy.
They obviously have a major reading comprehension issue.

Other than that, 2 other comments ...

1. The ACLU doesn't just protect popular speech, but any speech ala 1st Amendment. The same can be said for the NRA and the 2nd Amendment. Despite what the US media demonizes, 95% of what these 2 organizations do is very pro-Constitutional and most would agree with their actions.

2. Comparing Pearl Harbor to the Holocaust is a joke. 8 million people of Jewish faith in the US "got over it," and many other of Jewish faith have "gotten over it" too. But that doesn't mean some are going to "just trust anyone." After all, the US doesn't "just trust anyone" either.

Back to my original point, I think this is a major sham. Anyone is free to hold such a conference in the US (unlike many European nations). It's location, in the basket of civil rights violations and lack of free speech, makes the statements that this is about free speech utter non-sense to me.

 

[Member2019]

Patton did ...

it happend, and the jews need to get over it, we let pearl harbor go. they need to let it go. Stalin killed more of his own people then the nazi killed jews, and noone talks about that..

US General Patton did.
But no one listened, until well after he was dead.

 

[ÆGEAN]

Policktikal threads on this forum makes me suffer from headaches. And politics in general

 

[pickles&cumquat]

well its important to discuss politics, but to do so in a way which isnt' a personal attack on someone else.

disagreements are good, provided they are simple disagreements and again not personal.

Most people will respond differently when viewing/reading events both present and past.

I find it interesting to see other's points of view, whether i agree or not

 

[calpoon]

People don't want to "get over" the holocaust because it's really important for people to have a single definable situation of historical Evil, so that all other acts of a lesser degree of wrongness can be performed with a clear conscience. it's pretty obvious as some of our "instigators" that like to point it out and how quickly and easily it is to make a "moral" argument that mass killing under some circumstances is OK, and it's not under others. Because "we" are not like "them." to veil it in the mythology of horror is to take away from the daily reality of the holocaust. That it wasn't bloodthirsty monster drooling over thier prey, but just numbers on paper and people going about thier jobs everyday and keeping thier heads down that made up most of the activity that contributed to it. It's just how most people think that racism used to exist in the US and then it ended in 1865 (or for the more stubborn 1965) and they never question why it was so easy for so many people who were no less rational then we are to believe in for all that time, or the seemingly just as easy task of disbelieving it now.

and secondly, I wish that it wasn't true, but it seems to me that people are generally more pissed off when it's white capitalists on the chopping block. I don't see many people that are too offended by having resting in thier pockets a portrait of Andrew Jackson, a man that praised at all times and helped to carry out ethnocentric mass murder just as much as any SS commander.

 

[YMIHERE]

It's just how most people think that racism used to exist in the US and then it ended in 1865 (or for the more stubborn 1965) and they never question why it was so easy for so many people who were no less rational then we are to believe in for all that time, or the seemingly just as easy task of disbelieving it now.

State sanctioned racism may have ended with the Civil Rights Act in 1965, but individual racism is still with us.

 

[lordvader1]

********** is an utopian crazy communist and has a dislike for the way of acting of US. He spits on the people who serve the honor of the country where he migrated in. He is also victimizing criminals when they are senetenced to death or/and is minimizing the danger of having Amadinejad as leader of Iran. He is backing up his Arab brother in arms and saying that all is the fault of the USA Would I be working at the U.S. immigration office, wouldn't he never get his US citizenship because of some his statements that are offensive and insulting.

Great post as usual!!:bowdown: You are correct.

 

[georges]

State sanctioned racism may have ended with the Civil Rights Act in 1965, but individual racism is still with us.

That is true. But sometimes racism is due to events that happened in the life of a person for example she was agressed by a gang member or injuried by a thief, also you have racism due to ignorance and fear of the unknown and you also have racism because some people are constantly not respecting the rules in the country that has welcomed them and haven't made a single damn effort to integrate themselves. Those are the forms of racism that exist today.

 

[Roughneck]

That is true. But sometimes racism is due to events that happened in the life of a person for example she was agressed by a gang member or injuried by a thief, also you have racism due to ignorance and fear of the unknown and you also have racism because some people are constantly not respecting the rules in the country that has welcomed them and haven't made a single damn effort to integrate themselves. Those are the forms of racism that exist today.

And they are ALL wrong - because racism judges an individual by the collective.

It's like calling you an "asshole" because your Father was also an "asshole".
Wouldn't make you feel right now, would it?

Individuals should be judged by their actions and their actions alone.
There never was, and never will be any excuse to justify racism. It is morally repugnant and abhorrent.


cheers,

 

[pickles&cumquat]

And they are ALL wrong - because racism judges an individual by the collective.

It's like calling you an "asshole" because your Father was also an "asshole".
Wouldn't make you feel right now, would it?

Individuals should be judged by their actions and their actions alone.
There never was, and never will be any excuse to justify racism. It is morally repugnant and abhorrent.


cheers,

I couldn't agree more......


well said

 

[Dean Wormer]

Anyone know what the "result" of the conference was?