Questioning the holocaust ... in Iran ...

[om3ga]

Re: Questioning the holocaust ... in Iran (postscript)

Danish art group pokes fun at Iranian president

COPENHAGEN (Reuters) - A Danish art group that pokes fun at world leaders targeted Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Wednesday by placing an advertisement in a Tehran newspaper with an insulting hidden message.


Beneath a picture of the president, a series of apparently sympathetic statements were arranged such as "Support his fight against Bush" and "Iran has the right to produce nuclear energy". The advert was attributed to "Danes for World Peace".


However, the first letters of each phrase, when read from top to bottom, spell out "S-W-I-N-E".

Details:
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/20122006/80-132/danish-art-group-pokes-fun-iranian-president.html

Those crazy Danes......

 

[Legzman]

Absolute Agenda, no doubt in my mind!

 

[Aegis]

Re: Questioning the holocaust ... in Iran (postscript)

Danish art group pokes fun at Iranian president

COPENHAGEN (Reuters) - A Danish art group that pokes fun at world leaders targeted Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Wednesday by placing an advertisement in a Tehran newspaper with an insulting hidden message.


Beneath a picture of the president, a series of apparently sympathetic statements were arranged such as "Support his fight against Bush" and "Iran has the right to produce nuclear energy". The advert was attributed to "Danes for World Peace".


However, the first letters of each phrase, when read from top to bottom, spell out "S-W-I-N-E".

Details:
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/20122006/80-132/danish-art-group-pokes-fun-iranian-president.html

Those crazy Danes......

Hehe, I like this one.

The ad can be seen here:
http://www.surrend.org/

 

[RavenXcore]

Ive been in the Auschwitz death camp, a place designed to kill people.
And to all of you saying its only 250,000 people died in the Holocaust, there are records in Yad Vashem of almost 7,000,000 Jews who were murdered during the Holocaust.

 

[olivertoxxin]

BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!

WWII NEVER HAPPENED IT WAS A WORLD CONSPEARACY(sp)

Pearl harbor,D-day,holocaust ECT. Never happend..

 

[calpoon]

Here's just a few thoughts on the subject in general that have been kicking around in my head and that I'd like to articulate.

Author Derrick Jensen writes, "The endpoint of a utilitarian world-view is assembly line mass murder" and "The Holocaust is production stripped of the veneer of economics."

OK, with that thought, I'm gonna go in a slight bit different direction. A little while ago I saw the film Apocalypto and it made me think about a lot of things. One of those things is how startling it connects to the lessons of the Holocaust. In case you haven't seen the movie it depicts the collapse of a civilization, the last days of Aztec society. The great thing about this documentation is that because we are viewing it as outsiders it's been presented objectively without the lens of the usual propaganda known as History that's attributed to similar events in the western world.

It's made glaringly clear the insanity manifested in civilization; what happens as a result of a belief in entitlement ("I deserve to get what I want") and quantifying things, reducing them to commodities in that aim. Utilitarianism: "How can I use this?"

It also makes very obvious the brutality and horror that is collectively brought about in this aim, and most of all when that process is threatened to cease.

We all are aware of the death camps in Germany, but I don't think it's often discussed the other activities that were conducted during the Holocaust: People put into labor camps - gotta put all these unproductive people to use. People put into ghettos - gotta separate all these rotten poor people from the upstanding members of society. People put into concentration camps AKA. prisons - gotta get rid of all these trouble makers and make the streets safe. German soldiers sent to die on missions that were ill-conceived and totally pointless militarily. The general population possessing an apparent mass amnesia and going along as if none of this is happening. (To think, Hitler didn't event have GPS, cell phones, surveillance cameras, Cable TV broadcasting his messages 24/7). And always shifting the blame for the unsolvable problems - In the end he ordered the bombing of German cities.

The best lesson of the holocaust is that it serves as an example of the catastrophic breakdown of society in an Industrial world power in our time. I don't know about you, but some of the implications scare the hell out of me.

 

[Roughneck]

Speaking of Holocaust denial - David Irving has been set free in Austria.


And true to his nature, he has already started shooting his mouth off!

Author Derrick Jensen writes, "The endpoint of a utilitarian world-view is assembly line mass murder" and "The Holocaust is production stripped of the veneer of economics."

Personally, one of my "favourite" authors on utilitarianism is Jeremy Bentham's protege - John Stuart Mill.

I don't agree with Utilitarianism - but I like reading Mill's works.

The great thing about this documentation is that because we are viewing it as outsiders it's been presented objectively without the lens of the usual propaganda known as History that's attributed to similar events in the western world.

I do agree that the film raises many questions about man and civilization (in general).

But I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of "usual propaganda known as history" comment.

We all are aware of the death camps in Germany, but I don't think it's often discussed the other activities that were conducted during the Holocaust: People put into labor camps - gotta put all these unproductive people to use. People put into ghettos - gotta separate all these rotten poor people from the upstanding members of society. People put into concentration camps AKA. prisons - gotta get rid of all these trouble makers and make the streets safe. <snip> The general population possessing an apparent mass amnesia and going along as if none of this is happening. (To think, Hitler didn't event have GPS, cell phones, surveillance cameras, Cable TV broadcasting his messages 24/7). And always shifting the blame for the unsolvable problems - In the end he ordered the bombing of German cities.

You're perceptions of many things about WWII Germany (indeed, WWII-era Europe itself) are incomplete, IMHO (especially regarding the "mass amnesia" part).

A good book to start off with (I recommend) is Niall Fergusson's "War of the World".

cheers,

 

[calpoon]

well of course my "mass amnesia" was dramatic effect. There were a number of germans that were outspoken critics of the the war and and a few that downright tried to fight against it. (the fellows that tried to get to the point and take out Hitler are some of my heroes.) There are also many accounts of people that saw what was happening and did so much as to flat out ignore it and deny. like I said, I think that most people simply tried to maintain a semblance of normality and didn't know or didn't want to know what was going on.

I'll try to go about looking into that book. I know there is a lot more going on at the time, that's why there are thousands of books on the subject, mainly I'm intrested in the social issues and what if anything can be applied to modern day viewpoints.

as for my comment on history don't take that too seriously. I think that really everything is on a level propaganda, in that it's trying to promote a specific idea or get people to go along with. If not then it's just random information and not really useful.

 

[BNF]

Read this, new article and new info is coming: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061224/ap_on_re_eu/holocaust_papers_pyramid_of_persecution_4

 

[Torre82]

Sadly, I cannot go forth and impregnate as many of my jewish girlies as possible.. but in the interests of repopulating my people.. I hereby use my fleshlight to increase holocaust awareness and world peace. Or something. *fapfap*

It happened, its all wrong..its bound to happen again, history repeats.. fragile line between chaos and order.. you know the drill. Basically I really dont feel like writing a long, intelligent response where a summary will do. Denial, racism.. authors with enightened views.. nothing will stop killing in the name of progress. Blah blah. What this town needs is an enema.

 

[Roughneck]

What this town needs is an enema.

Tap water, Fleets or soap suds?


cheers,

 

[Philbert]

Sadly, I cannot go forth and impregnate as many of my jewish girlies as possible.. but in the interests of repopulating my people.. I hereby use my fleshlight to increase holocaust awareness and world peace. Or something. *fapfap*

It happened, its all wrong..its bound to happen again, history repeats.. fragile line between chaos and order.. you know the drill. Basically I really dont feel like writing a long, intelligent response where a summary will do. Denial, racism.. authors with enightened views.. nothing will stop killing in the name of progress. Blah blah. What this town needs is an enema.

"I think 'tis but the cynicism of the young..."

"Sometimes, great insight may derive from the uninvolved."


(...some old dude probably said this stuff somewhere. So, it could be a direct quote.)



[Hey...way cool, this is my 100th post. Marvel comics No-Prize level moment.]

 

[cutenewfy]

It's too bad Iran has such a fucked up government,The Iranian people are really cool,I had some iranian friends when i lived in toronto a few years back ,They are really nice people and iranian women are some of the prettiest i have ever seen.

 

[Member2019]

Sadly ...

It's too bad Iran has such a fucked up government,The Iranian people are really cool,I had some iranian friends when i lived in toronto a few years back ,They are really nice people and iranian women are some of the prettiest i have ever seen.

Sadly, it is the anti-American and, even more so, anti-western -- much of its justified and very correct -- drives their ability to maintain control over the people who would rather be much more progressive.

E.g., Europe did create much of the "problem" with the exodus of those of the Jewish faith, and Europe should have done more to solve it (the US did its part with a mass influx of new, Jewish-Americans, with our open arms). It's hard to argue with facts when its used as rhetoric, because it's not exactly rhetoric and appeals to those who do know their history.

 

[member2013]

I surmise, and possess an instinct that those that want to debate, or attempt to prove that this event didn’t happen are either Adolf Hitler, and National Socialist sympathizers (other than the ‘final solution’) or are secret Neo-Nazis: that want to downplay the event to give their political views; more favor.

I have read testimony from former ‘SS men’ and Third Reich secretaries saying this event, in fact, happened.

Why ‘Joe Nobody,’ on the street corner would know better is beyond me.

As in anything in this existence, I am not saying with whole certitude that it was, 'factual,' or 'real.' I do surmise that it happened.

It's interesting that most of these, 'objective scholars,' that are questioning this event are seemingly always of the right Muslim, or right White Supremacist, variety. They are trying to make an intellectual ideology, out of their animalist instincts. It’s comical, and pathetic how the bigots stumble when questioned by the Multiracialists: ‘No, I don’t hate Jews, I just don’t want to live around them.’

Some people seem to think that there is nothing more to life, than race.

 

[member2013]

Sadly, I cannot go forth and impregnate as many of my jewish girlies as possible.. but in the interests of repopulating my people.. I hereby use my fleshlight to increase holocaust awareness and world peace. Or something. *fapfap*

It happened, its all wrong..its bound to happen again, history repeats.. fragile line between chaos and order.. you know the drill. Basically I really dont feel like writing a long, intelligent response where a summary will do. Denial, racism.. authors with enightened views.. nothing will stop killing in the name of progress. Blah blah. What this town needs is an enema.

The human as we ‘know’ him to be called, 'Adolf Hitler' – struck me presumably, to be far too 'self-educated' to succeed with his reactionary utopia for humanity. I subjectively found myself cringing with anger at some of the literature that I viewed them to be allegedly burning in fire. I presume, that his ‘movement’ was not an ‘intellectual’ one and it appeared, at face value, to be program for ‘racial’ mystics, ‘historical’ romanticists, and those in favor of a cannibalistic reconstruction of Europe and displacement of peoples and replacement with those who were judged as the ‘pure,’ and ‘superior’ by whatever artificially concocted basis.

The initial ‘purpose,’ was in all probability the rearmament of Germany. One should be careful of those which spew forth simplistic, verbal pyrotechnics – with the certitude of an astrophysicist. Adolf Hitler today, is much more of the cause and agent of ‘political correctness’ than many believe. Strictly as a German statesman, for German people, and Germany: he was in the top echelon. And his army will go down as some of the most (if not the most) incredible conquerors in history.

I concur; I feel that events like that are unfortunate forces of nature. I surmise that the Jews are the successful, and established ‘other,’ with different ideas, different behavior, and a different essence. This leads to the conspiracy theory creating, and resentment. Being the animals, we are.

 

[Member2019]

I concur; I feel that events like that are unfortunate forces of nature. I surmise that the Jews are the successful, and established ‘other,’ with different ideas, different behavior, and a different essence. This leads to the conspiracy theory creating, and resentment. Being the animals, we are.

People complain about the Jewish people, the state of Israel, against the right of it to exist.

In all honesty, after WWII, I do not blame the Jewish people for establishing the state of Israel (although deciding to establish it in the holy lands may be debatable).
Humanity failed to protect them, and I do not blame one iota for establishing themselves as their own nation to ensure their own protection in the future.

But the reason I started this thread wasn't to really debate or question the holocaust.
I started it to point out the simple fact that it did not have to take place in Iran, it could have taken place in the US.
The rhetoric that no one is free to debate the holocaust in the west is simply not true.

No, the reason why this "conference" occurred in Iran is because it was the only place where the public would have not ridiculed it for the farce it is.

 

[member2013]

But the reason I started this thread wasn't to really debate or question the holocaust.
I started it to point out the simple fact that it did not have to take place in Iran, it could have taken place in the US.
The rhetoric that no one is free to debate the holocaust in the west is simply not true.

I don’t know enough information to comment rationally on that. I have heard the terminology.

Perhaps some upset, and post traumatic Jews don’t feel like hearing Neo Nazis, or Muslim extremists: claim that they were not murdered?

I can see how that can be offensive and how they would be angered, and want to outlaw, ‘holocaust denial.’

If not that, perhaps the death statistics have been exaggerated by some by mistake, or for effect (like all human tragedy is exploited). Seriously, if I was a Gypsy I would not be interested in watching the abundance of holocaust films, for entertainment. If we are not barbarians here: it doesn’t matter the death statistic because one death, would be too many.

 

[Calm]

I don’t know enough information to comment rationally on that. I have heard the terminology.

Perhaps some upset, and post traumatic Jews don’t feel like hearing Neo Nazis, or Muslim extremists: claim that they were not murdered?

I can see how that can be offensive and how they would be angered, and want to outlaw, ‘holocaust denial.’

If not that, perhaps the death statistics have been exaggerated by some by mistake, or for effect (like all human tragedy is exploited). Seriously, if I was a Gypsy I would not be interested in watching the abundance of holocaust films, for entertainment. If we are not barbarians here: it doesn’t matter the death statistic because one death, would be too many.

I actually studied this subject a little and the numbers of deaths are not round numbers, therefore are PROBABLY accurate.
At any rate, the deaths were in the millions and not in the thousands, as some claim.

 

[Imagine]

No option really fit my opinion. Essentially, I'm quite sure this is arranged for political reasons. At the same time, I encourage asking questions about the holocaust or history in general. Not that I doubt it happened, but history is not an exact science and is written by the winners. Asking questions about it is never wrong, and I'd much rather have some people who deny it happened that having everyone simply accept it.