Questioning the holocaust ... in Iran ...

[Friday on my mind]

Very very very well said. Asking questions about history is NEVER wrong. And oh how the winners write them books. How many times have I said that only to be greeted with words like "bollocks".

" Bollocks" is a word of Anglo Saxon origin, meaning testicles in British English and in Hiberno-English. The word is often used figuratively, most commonly

I nerver knew this, all it ever was to me was the title of Sex pistols album as in "Never mind the Bollocks".Learn something all the time here:thumbsup:

 

[Member2019]

Unfortunately, it's not about searching for the truth ...

At the same time, I encourage asking questions about the holocaust or history in general.

The problem is that they aren't doing that.
Understand this was pretty entirely a farce of the search for the truth.

I respect their right to free assembly, which they could have done in the US, and that's why I pointed it out to start this thread.

I actually studied this subject a little and the numbers of deaths are not round numbers, therefore are PROBABLY accurate.
At any rate, the deaths were in the millions and not in the thousands, as some claim.

Hundreds of thousands of Russian civilians died as well in the camps.
Hundreds of thousands of Masons were also targeted.

But nothing like 6 million people merely because they were of the Jewish faith.

 

[georges]

20000000 of russians (soldiers and civilians) died in WWII. Some of the civilians were executed in their own houses, other were killed in goulags because they were not agreeing with Stalin's ideas.

 

[Roughneck]

20000000 of russians (soldiers and civilians) died in WWII.

Technically, it should be "Soviets", not just "Russians". Plenty of Soviet casualties were Ukrainian, Polish, Kazakh, Tartar etc.

In other words, many members of the Red Army were of ethnic groups other than just "Russian".



cheers,

 

[member2013]

Re: Unfortunately, it's not about searching for the truth ...

But nothing like 6 million people merely because they were of the Jewish faith.

That wasn't the primary rationale, and aim of them being targeted by that program and regime. 'National Socialism,' was so simple yet so complex. Maybe you can get your hands on some viable German sources, to clear that up. I don't know.

There is so much disinformation being spread by the allies, although I can understand why. If one is an anti-racist, it is imperative to understand what that German regime actually was as close, and 'objective' as a human can.

That's how you combat it.

 

[lechepicha]

great thread.

i think the ones who deny the holocaust are people who don't know a thing about suffering, pain and respect for mankind. they should be banned and criminalized. the free speech doesn't apply there. there are limits, you know

 

[Gordar]

EDIT : N/M I didn't notice this thread is 2 years old...

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

I chose free politics. I believe Israel has no right to exist as long as they continue to deny the Palestinians the same kind of homeland as the Israeli themselves were given by the UN.

EDIT : N/M I didn't notice this thread is 2 years old...

Neither did I.

 

[meesterperfect]

i don't deny that germans killed jews during the later years of hitlers power, but 6 million?
I don't buy it, never did.
just where did that number come from anyway?
hmm, struggling to fight a war on 2 fronts and having the time and resources to kill 6 million specifically jewish people?
its unfeasable, and its false.

 

[lechepicha]

its unfeasable, and its false.

that's some pretty strong words.

no "i think", no "i iguess", no "perhaps", no "maybe", no "IMHO"...

well, IMHO it's completely feasable and it's absolutely true. I know survivors. And I know they're not bullshiting me. And I know they remember. I'd remember.

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

well, IMHO it's completely feasable and it's absolutely true. I know survivors. And I know they're not bullshiting me. And I know they remember. I'd remember.

Well, that doesn't disprove the idea that there were less than six million jews killed, does it? You make it sound like those people knew six million people who died.

 

[BlueBalls]

i don't deny that germans killed jews during the later years of hitlers power, but 6 million?
I don't buy it, never did.
just where did that number come from anyway?
hmm, struggling to fight a war on 2 fronts and having the time and resources to kill 6 million specifically jewish people?
its unfeasable, and its false.

The Nazi's being . . . German, were as that old stereotype goes very meticulous which made them excellent record keepers. It is this documentation plus video, photographic and sworn testimony by those perpetrating these acts and those on the receiving end of them and also what the alies saw when they liberated them that allows for such a high figure to be put on the death toll. But let's not forget the further 5 or so million non-jews who were also killed at this time - a lot of the time they do seem to be forgotten in all of this.

The evidence would seem to be there.

 

[Mauser98k]

i don't deny that germans killed jews during the later years of hitlers power, but 6 million?
I don't buy it, never did.
just where did that number come from anyway?
hmm, struggling to fight a war on 2 fronts and having the time and resources to kill 6 million specifically jewish people?
its unfeasable, and its false.

the number comes from their own records. Christ, from the number of murders that weren't recorded as they happened in the field or just at random that number is low if it's anything. while the Waffen SS was fighting the regular SS had the time, money and people to make it happen.

no use arguing it though. some people just don't get it.

 

[Friday on my mind]

You folks who don't beleive the 6 million killed and the holocaust need to read some books on the subject and learn a lot more about the history of Hitler,WW2 and related.

As BB says there is tons on documentation to prove what happened,much of it provided by the germans themselves who kept very good records of the activities at the camps and their other killing /extermination.

 

[YMIHERE]

My uncle was with Patton in WWII. His unit was the first one to reach a concentration camp in Germany in 1945. He did not want to talk about in detail but said it was unbelievable that someone could do that to another human. I was watching TV with him and a WWII documentary about the camps came on. He became very nauseous and ill at ease and got up and turned the TV off. He said he has nightmares about the camp and did not like to be reminded of them. His eyewitness testimony is good enough for me.

 

[Gordar]

I chose free politics. I believe Israel has no right to exist as long as they continue to deny the Palestinians the same kind of homeland as the Israeli themselves were given by the UN.



Neither did I.

Whether Israel acknowledges Palestine or not has little to do with the holocaust. Many people who have been in the camps believe the policy which Israel has been applying is wrong and this policy is often defended by those people who were already in Palestine when WWII started. The people that have ruled Israel since it's founding have more in common with this group

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

than with holocaust survivors.

Anyway, what saddens me is that when people talk about the monstrosities the Nazis committed they often forget that the Nazis also wanted to exterminate gypsies, homosexuals, Jehovah's witnesses, etc.

 

[CunningStunts]

My uncle was with Patton in WWII. His unit was the first one to reach a concentration camp in Germany in 1945. He did not want to talk about in detail but said it was unbelievable that someone could do that to another human. I was watching TV with him and a WWII documentary about the camps came on. He became very nauseous and ill at ease and got up and turned the TV off. He said he has nightmares about the camp and did not like to be reminded of them. His eyewitness testimony is good enough for me.

Same with my grandfather... he never really talked about it, but he said every life we gave was worth it to liberate Germany and the rest of Europe from what he called the "Nazi devils".

Actions like the Holocaust can only be allowed to happen when groups of people are de-humanized to the point where they are no longer viewed as human, and good people stand by and do nothing. Ideologies/religions that promote the death of groups of people cannot and should not be tolerated... there are several out there today BTW who if given the chance, would LOVE to bring about another Holocaust.

 

[meesterperfect]

I still question the actual number, not the fact that it happened
6 million is an estimate created in the 1950's, but i've never seen proof of this number.
Its not strong words, just questioning a number i've never seen proof of.
I also wonder why, throughout the past thousand years why so many countrys have banished jews from their land. Edward I and edward III banished them from england as did spain and france at that time.
Even Ben Franklin wanted them denied entry into the US 200 some years ago.
could it be just pure racism, or maybe something more?

 

[Boothbabe]

I still question the actual number, not the fact that it happened
6 million is an estimate created in the 1950's, but i've never seen proof of this number.
Its not strong words, just questioning a number i've never seen proof of.

There should be a "that's our meesterperfect" emoticon specifically for that comment.

Researchers arrived @ that number (actually the general consencus is that 5,2-5,8 million Jews were killed during WW2) with the help of pre and post war censuses and population estimates. Nazi documentation on deportations and murders was also used. Wether or not you believe this number to be true is irrelevant.

 

[Gordar]

I also wonder why, throughout the past thousand years why so many countrys have banished jews from their land. Edward I and edward III banished them from england as did spain and france at that time.
Even Ben Franklin wanted them denied entry into the US 200 some years ago.
could it be just pure racism, or maybe something more?

Quite simple. Jews denied and deny that the Roman emperor was a god, Jesus is their savior & that Muhammad is the last & greatest prophet...

If you look at how Christians & Muslims treated & treat eachother, you'll only see 1 difference, namely that Muslims & Christians are capable of defending themselves, whereas Jews weren't before they got their own nation.

Jews were a scattered people who had to settle amongst others who did not share their religion and culture. Since they were a minority & since they weren't part of the larger group, they soon became outcasts.

Add to that that Christianity has always frowned upon profit (except when in concerns the church) and that profit isn't something to look down upon in Judaïsm, plus the fact that Jews couldn't become members of the guilds or work for most Christian companies, Jews had to do that which Christians could not. Banking is a nice example.

They became rich, while Christians didn't. This alone is enough to cause resentment.

Besides, the Catholics weren't very tolerant towards anything or anyone who dared to think differently. Just think of the Cathars, Northern Crusades and Reformists.