Raise the debt ceiling, Yes or No?

[Jack Davenport]

Let's for argument sake say that the ceiling is not raised. What is the immediate consequence and impact?

 

[Mariahxxx]

credit rating takes another hit pushing further into the grip of those we owe, like China. one day in the not so far off future we will be no different than a Mexico or Venezuela. extremely poor people and extremely rich people, and nothing in the middle. its headed that way now at a frantic rate. the wealthiest people increased their wealth during the recession betting on the failures. the poor people lost retirement funds and pensions and jobs and health care.

 

[lurkingdirk]

Not raising the debt ceiling, and defaulting, is a piss poor option. It would have immediate impacts on the stock market, it would slam banks, lending would get nearly impossible, so mortgages and the like would turn into something for the elite.

The debt ceiling need be raised.

Cuts to spending need to happen.

The trouble with those two things is partisan politics. If we could get beyond that, decide the government need be smaller, we need to spend less money, then everyone could not only get on board, but we'd not need to borrow more money to pay for the debt and programs that we have. I realise that comparing a nation such as America to a personal credit rating is ridiculous, but attaching the responsibility of spending wisely is absolutely apropos. We need to spend better as a nation. That is going to involve some uncomfortable cuts.

 

[Jack Davenport]

Interesting that you would bring up our now AA+ rating that used to be a AAA rating. Guess what happened the last time we RAISED the debt ceiling? Our rating was downgraded AFTER we did it. Debt is a funny thing Other than my daughter the most important thing in my life.is my credit score. My Beacon is in the 800's and my FICO is in the mid 700's. But a strange thing happened when I bought a property. My score went down because I assumed more debt. The same thing happens to the government whether you make your payments on time or not. After A while I decided to join a group of investors within a corporation for my real estate endeavors. But you get my drift.

 

[Master Roshi]

Let's for argument sake say that the ceiling is not raised. What is the immediate consequence and impact?

ok in fantasy land lets say capital hill found religion and the majority decided not to raise the debt ceiling in order to pay the bills, the US would default and governors would probably be declaring marshall law before the month was up, you would see troops on the streets for a loooonngg time, most of the other countries would spiral as well because the US dollar is the world reserve currently and is used on a daily basis in over 85 percent of the known world, we are talking mad max scenario which is why they would never allow that to happen, you see the corporations and the banks behind them are making toooooo much profit off of the current system and there is still alot of stealing left to be done, a mad max crash benefits no one especially not the money powers, remember they still need to pay workers to clean their pools and drive them around

 

[Master Roshi]

and make no mistake, China and the US are partners in this current economic system, that's what Nixon's visit over there was "really" about back in the 70s

 

[Jack Davenport]

Default could be avoided and still not raise the debt ceiling I thought this was clear.

 

[Master Roshi]

nah it can't be blue, the debt ceiling must be raised, the US treasury is out of money and needs to borrow more from the fed and they will

 

[Master Roshi]

a lot of wasteful spending could and should be cut be the US treasury will still need to borrow in order to pay all the bills

 

[Jack Davenport]

Actually the Fed would start having to cut the hell out of a lot but technically could pay the interest from receipts. What I am after are cuts and no more debt ceiling increases. That is what some of the so called hostage takers are after too.

 

[lurkingdirk]

Interesting that you would bring up our now AA+ rating that used to be a AAA rating. Guess what happened the last time we RAISED the debt ceiling? Our rating was downgraded AFTER we did it. Debt is a funny thing Other than my daughter the most important thing in my life.is my credit score. My Beacon is in the 800's and my FICO is in the mid 700's. But a strange thing happened when I bought a property. My score went down because I assumed more debt. The same thing happens to the government whether you make your payments on time or not. After A while I decided to join a group of investors within a corporation for my real estate endeavors. But you get my drift.

It is peculiar that your rating was down graded after borrowing more. The person with perfect credit would have a score of 0. That would mean they haven't borrowed money, they haven't had late payments, they owe nothing, and they're not carrying credit cards. Those who have a mortgage are more likely to get a high credit rating. If you're borrowing for something like a house or a car, your credit rating should boost as you make payments on time, not diminish.

I recently did some financing to push money around. I was told I have a credit rating of 210, but the bank jumped on me borrowing money. I have no mortgage or car payment or any debt. It turns out that credit rating is very little regarded when you get into financing unnecessary money, just investment money. Perhaps this is relevant to the debt ceiling discussion. The U.S. is always going to make good on their payments because...well, what's the option? Being a douche to the world monetary folks?

 

[Master Roshi]

Actually the Fed would start having to cut the hell out of a lot but technically could pay the interest from receipts. What I am after are cuts and no more debt ceiling increases. That is what some of the so called hostage takers are after too.

the only way the US would truly stop the debt increases is to nationalize the fed like JFK attempted to do thru executive order 11110, there is no reason for any country to issue bonds to a private federal reserve in order to borrow money at a ridiculous interest rate that can never be paid down, the US treasury should just have the power to issue US notes instead of Federal Reserve notes but this would cut the mega banks out of the picture completely and they would never allow that

 

[Jack Davenport]

It's not what you borrow that builds your score it is how quickly you pay it off. I have made a few bucks investing in hard money deals. Those are deals where a property is available or project is ongoing that will turn around and sell in a few weeks or months and the person or entity that owns the property cannot qualify for conventional financing but I will risk money through a deed of trust and 11-18 interest rate. I started doing this alone at first and would borrow money for these deals and my rating would take a hit when I borrowed but jump up when I satisfied the debt. Now my investments are with a corporation of investors that I have been successful with.

 

[Master Roshi]

now this is not to say that issuing US notes would stop inflation, not by any means, we would still have inflation but it could still be slow steady and controlled just like it is now but the difference being that the US would pay no more interest to a private conglomerate of banks headed by the Rothschilds and then we would have an opportunity to start decreasing the national debt by paying back the bonds the treasury issued to the reserve, I reckon before it was all said and done we could cover and paste all the federal reserves building walls throughout the country with their crappy federal reserve notes in about 15 to 20 years lol I don't see this happening in our lifetime but its nice to dream

 

[Master Roshi]

I have had my disagreements with Rey lately but I knew he would come through as he understands economics better than anyone on this board. Now I know you don't like Ted Cruz because of his ties to the Tea Party. I was actually ahead of myself when I said no. We have spent the money so we have to raise it. I disagree with Cruz but they are calling him a radical for opposing raising it. Obama opposed raising it in 2006. So what does it make Cruz a radical to balk at it but not Obama?

I'd like to think I can give Rey a run for his money but he has corrected me once already

 

[Jack Davenport]

You are new to me. I have only noticed your postings in the past couple of weeks. You may very well be knowledgable. Early indications seem that way.

 

[georges]

No question to raise the debt ceiling. A too highly indebted and insolvent country is not a good sign for foreign investors and even for your own national future businesses.

 

[Mariahxxx]

The US deficit is dropping at a record rate. Its the lowest it's been in 5 years with projections to drop more than it has in 60 years. Obama has cut far more than he has spent believe it or not. Every single thing he has tried to do the republicans have opposed, no matter what it is.

 

[Jack Davenport]

The US deficit is dropping at a record rate. Its the lowest it's been in 5 years with projections to drop more than it has in 60 years. Obama has cut far more than he has spent believe it or not. Every single thing he has tried to do the republicans have opposed, no matter what it is.

I am going to have to wash your mouth out with soap. That is about as misleading of a statistic as someone can pull out of their ass. In Obama's first year there was this damn near one tillion dollar stimulus package introduced remember that thing? The next year he had his allowance cut off for he and his buddies when the Repubs took the majority. Now as a percentage of GDP it has dropped dramatically but that is the effect when you go from spending one trillion in one year to a fraction of that next.

 

[Will E Worm]

Spending cuts are needed. No more Obama phones or handouts. No more raising taxes.