Teen Dies After Police Use Taser on Him (Bay City, MI)

[Will E Worm]

I know if your a guy and you live in a country that bans guns. I think you are just jealous that men in the USA can own guns? :yesyes:

Cuz I know damn skippy. if I lived in your country that didn't allow guns, I would be relocating to the nearest country that did allow its citizens too own guns.

Be honest with yourself. your justifying your countries ban cuz you can't have guns. but if you were allowed you wouldn't be saying shit. :nono:

:hatsoff:

They should have said no and kept their weapons.
Instead they were apathetic and lost their rights. Shameful :nono:

I don't know when it will sink in with you folks. its not the law abiding citizens that are committing all the crimes / shooting and murdering all the people in the USA all the time. its the criminals.

Once again. law abiding citizens that own guns are not responsible for all that that goes in the streets and all the loonies going on killing spree's.

p.s. I know you appreciate the statistic's of your country vs. our country. but you know damn well if they lifted the ban in your country, you'd be in fuckin heaven. all guys love guns. just like guys love gals, sports, cars, its in our blood. and theirs NO way to deny that.

It's the criminals not law abiding citizens. :hatsoff:

 

[larss]

:hatsoff:

They should have said no and kept their weapons.
Instead they were apathetic and lost their rights. Shameful :nono:



It's the criminals not law abiding citizens. :hatsoff:

As I said before, why fight for the "right" to have 30 times the death rate from guns. It wasn't apathy that counted here, it was common sense.

 

[Marlo Manson]

As I said before, why fight for the "right" to have 30 times the death rate from guns. It wasn't apathy that counted here, it was common sense.

Were going in circles its the illegal firearms that are being distributed throughout the streets.

They are not guns that are registered and bought legally. registered owners keep theiir guns locked away. if by chance their weapons are stolen. they contact the police and report them stolen.

This has nothing to do with gun shops, gun dealers, or even legitimate law abiding citizens. I think allot and maybe most of these guns come from abroad.

If their were that big of a leak between manufactuers and gun dealers the government / law would have pinched that source a long time ago. and how many rogue gun dealers buy legally and sell to the worst element criminals, NOT MANY. they'd get buried under a jail just as it was a rapist, murderer, or terrorist.

Running guns in the USA is very profitable but very risky both, having to outsmart the law, and the risk of murderous clients who will jack you, for your guns, your money, and your life.

So I am not seeing your point. their maybe 30 times more death in the USA by way of guns, but these guns for the most part are shipped into the USA illegally and distributed illegally.

The guns that are made in the USA are sold for the most part to gun dealers who in turn sell to legitimate law abiding citizens. so as I stated before. its the criminal underground and the blackmarket weapons in the streets being used by criminals. not law abiding citizens. legally sold firearms have very little to do with the murder count in the USA.

 

[Will E Worm]

As I said before, why fight for the "right" to have 30 times the death rate from guns. It wasn't apathy that counted here, it was common sense.

I know if your a guy and you live in a country that bans guns. I think you are just jealous that men in the USA can own guns? :yesyes:

Cuz I know damn skippy. if I lived in your country that didn't allow guns, I would be relocating to the nearest country that did allow its citizens too own guns.

Be honest with yourself. your justifying your countries ban cuz you can't have guns. but if you were allowed you wouldn't be saying shit. :nono:

This has nothing to do with gun shops, gun dealers, or even legitimate law abiding citizens.

The police and the "justice" system are coddling criminals.

There's no reason to punish the good citizens for the few.

Also, it would start a civil war in this country.
That's one thing that would do it.
Unlike some countries that sit back and let their government take their weapons.

Leave the guns alone.

 

[larss]

This has nothing to do with gun shops, gun dealers, or even legitimate law abiding citizens.

The police and the "justice" system are coddling criminals.

There's no reason to punish the good citizens for the few.

Also, it would start a civil war in this country.
That's one thing that would do it.
Unlike some countries that sit back and let their government take their weapons.

Leave the guns alone.

I am not saying that you should give up your rights to own guns, not now anyway, it would be pretty pointless, and the pro gun lobby is too powerful. As for Marlo's point about there being so many illegal guns - well, that just does not stand up. If illegal guns was the problem, they why do we not have the same problem here? The vast majority of criminals in this country do not have illegal firearms, and, in the main, they are not used. Could this be because our police do not carry them as a matter of course, and firearms officers are only deployed when firearms are suspected to be being carried? Could it be possible that the criminals do not (on the whole) feel that they need to carry guns when their victims are unlikely to be armed?

It is, of course, your right by your laws to own firearms, and your right to fight to protect those rights (now there's a lot of rights ). In the same way, I have the right to hold the opposing view, and live in a country where I am reasonably safe from firearms. As a mater of interest, firearms restrictions were first introduced in the UK in 1824, and have been continuously strengthened since then. Weapons restrictions here, also extend to knives, where it is illegal to carry a knife except for a folding knife where the blade is shorter than 3 inches. Penalties for carrying knives in public can extend to 4 years in prison and a £5000 ($7200).

 

[larss]

I've just been digging for some stats on homicides as a whole, and the latest comparison figure that I can find shows a total number of homicides in the UK of 517 (out of 60million population - a rate of 0.86 per 100,000) and in the US for the same year - 16,785 (out of 28.5million population - a rate of 5.96 per 100,000). Either this means that weapons control works, or the US population is just far more violent. Personally, I believe that it must be down to having fewer lethal weapons, so arguments will result in a black eye and a couple of broken teeth rather than death. Marlo seemed to suggest that not owning a gun makes you less manly (

it takes the man out of the soul of you guys who pray and wish you could own, shoot, and carry guns

), but surely a fist fight is more manly that shooting someone (or using a taser for that matter) <<- poor attempt to stay on topic

 

[Marlo Manson]

As for Marlo's point about there being so many illegal guns - well, that just does not stand up. If illegal guns was the problem, they why do we not have the same problem here? The vast majority of criminals in this country do not have illegal firearms, and, in the main, they are not used. Could this be because our police do not carry them as a matter of course, and firearms officers are only deployed when firearms are suspected to be being carried? Could it be possible that the criminals do not (on the whole) feel that they need to carry guns when their victims are unlikely to be armed?

Ummm my point doesn't stand up? hmmm. lets see here. if most of the criminals are the buyers of these illegally imported guns. then the guns criminals get, are for the most part not guns manufactured in the USA. Gun Dealers, and Shops must adhere to all the rules. that goes for there own state laws, and then federal guidelines on how there merchandise is sold.

So unless legal law abiding citizens are buying registered guns for these criminals to use, then I find it highly unlikely and doubtful that most of the criminal guns come from legal gun shops / gun dealers. ya heard?

So then if the criminals are not buying these illegally shipped firearms then where are they getting them from? very few if any the criminals guns come from legal shops and dealers.

Besides law abiding citizens are too intelligent too sell legal firearms to criminals or the criminal element. so if the guns are not stolen from a law abiding citizen, which I think is only a small percentage of the guns that criminals are armed with. then where do they get there guns?

Well only logical explanation / answer to this dilemma would be the weapons are being illegally imported from abroad. maybe your criminals have become accustom to operating without guns so its not worth the hastle to acquire them? :dunno:

As the facts would have it, guns are a major trafficking problem in the USA prolly as lucrative as the drug trade. after all they go hand in hand. just drop this if your not comprehending my points. your not wrong for having opinions, but your mistaken with the criminal enterprise and their resources.

 

[Marlo Manson]

I've just been digging for some stats on homicides as a whole, and the latest comparison figure that I can find shows a total number of homicides in the UK of 517 (out of 60million population - a rate of 0.86 per 100,000) and in the US for the same year - 16,785 (out of 28.5million population - a rate of 5.96 per 100,000). Either this means that weapons control works, or the US population is just far more violent. Personally, I believe that it must be down to having fewer lethal weapons, so arguments will result in a black eye and a couple of broken teeth rather than death. Marlo seemed to suggest that not owning a gun makes you less manly (), but surely a fist fight is more manly that shooting someone (or using a taser for that matter) <<- poor attempt to stay on topic

Don't put words in my mouth young grasshoppa. :nono: I said its a man thing to love and be addicted to guns. it takes something out of your soul too not be able to collect guns.

I said nothing about being less of a man for not having a gun. so yeah I will man up and fight with my fists before I resort to using guns. but shit doesn't always work like that.

and yes I think the US is more violent then the UK. and the number of illegal guns are also a factor.

p.s. the soul part just comes for mans affinity for guns. cars. sports. and other man activities. so don't fuckin put words in my mouth. I am not belittling your countries ideologies nor the male populations heart or courage. :thefinger

 

[larss]

Don't put words in my mouth young grasshoppa. :nono: I said its a man thing to love and be addicted to guns. it takes something out of your soul too not be able to collect guns.

I said nothing about being less of a man for not having a gun. so yeah I will man up and fight with my fists before I resort to using guns. but shit doesn't always work like that.

and yes I think the US is more violent then the UK. and the number of illegal guns are also a factor.

p.s. the soul part just comes for mans affinity for guns. cars. sports. and other man activities. so don't fuckin put words in my mouth. I am not belittling your countries ideologies nor the male populations heart or courage. :thefinger

Not trying to put words in your mouth, just a minor misinterpretation of what you were saying. However, you do prove my point in one case

maybe your criminals have become accustom to operating without guns so its not worth the hastle to acquire them?

They don't operate with guns BECAUSE the general populace do not own guns.

As for the majority of criminal killers in the US having illegal guns, I found this (rather old) article on the subject http://www.spectacle.org/495/guns5.html from which I quote the following-

The more you look into it, though, the more it appears that the intruder and the homeowner have both bought their gun from the same person. An illegal gun in the United States, unlike an illegal drug, is not one smuggled into the country or made in a basement laboratory; it is always a gun that began its odyssey with a legal sale by a gunshop to somebody, somewhere. The gun used to kill President Kennedy was purchased by mail through an ad in the Rifleman, the NRA magazine; the gun used to assassinate the Mexican presidential candidate last year was originally purchased in a California gunshop. Colin Ferguson purchased the semiautomatic he used to kill the Long Island Railroad Riders in a California gunshop too. Patrick Purdy, the killer of five Cambodian schoolchildren in a schoolyard, also bought his weapon legally in California, and Wayne Lo, who killed a professor and a student at his Berkshire, Mass. college, bought his semiautomatic at the same sporting goods shop where I buy my lures and bait when I am in that part of the country.

 

[larss]

Just for balance, you may want to read this article as well - calling for better controls on illegal guns http://www.bradycampaign.org/action/trafficking/background/

btw this shows that 4 out of 10 gun sales are via unlicensed dealers which is more than I suspected, but probably less than you (Marlo) thought (based on what has been said before).

 

[Marlo Manson]

Not trying to put words in your mouth, just a minor misinterpretation of what you were saying. However, you do prove my point in one case



They don't operate with guns BECAUSE the general populace do not own guns.

As for the majority of criminal killers in the US having illegal guns, I found this (rather old) article on the subject http://www.spectacle.org/495/guns5.html from which I quote the following-

The figures you found and quoted are likely too be 2nd generation guns that were handed down from legal owner too non legal owners.

Most of the guns purchased presently are illegally imported guns without a doubt. and for the wackos that purchase their weapons legally and then go on these unspeakable killing spree's are just proofs of a severe flaw in the system.

not that, that's an excuse for their behavior or the way they legally purchased their weapons. it is legal to buy shotguns / long guns / assault rifles without much hastle for it is hard to conceal. yes way more lethal and dangerous then a concealable handgun.

but handguns are the concealable guns that can be carried without notice. on the other hand. people see long-guns. don't ask me or question me about the rationale of that law or the geniuses that agreed and passed those terrible designed totally ludicrous laws but that's the reason these killing spree's take place.

Its usually a law abiding fruitcake who snaps and decides he wants to kill everybody that wronged him. there's really no way to prevent it. :eek::dunno:

 

[larss]

Its usually a law abiding fruitcake who snaps and decides he wants to kill everybody that wronged him. there's really no way to prevent it. :eek::dunno:

Yes there is - ban guns :tongue:

The 2nd article I posted says 4 out of 10 guns are illegal sales, which is not most, but is still pretty worrying.

 

[Marlo Manson]

Yes there is - ban guns :tongue:

The 2nd article I posted says 4 out of 10 guns are illegal sales, which is not most, but is still pretty worrying.

Even if they were to ban guns. the cirminals would still get ahold of them from the illegal guns being shipped in from abroad. and whether we like it or not. just like drugs these gangs and gun runners are still gonna sell too whomever has the most cash.

So even banning guns just makes it harder for law abiding citizens to have firearms. it doesn't negate the aspect of illegal guns turning up on the streets regardless if they implement a gun ban. infact it just ensure more illegal guns end up in the criminal hands. :eek::scream:

and regardless of the statistics your finding I am almost certain that illegal firearm sales are higher then the 4 you suggest. I am willing too bet its up to 6 or 7 out of every 10 guns in criminals possesion. :yesyes:

 

[larss]

and regardless of the statistics your finding I am almost certain that illegal firearm sales are higher then the 4 you suggest. I am willing too bet its up to 6 or 7 out of every 10 guns in criminals possesion. :yesyes:

In criminal possession, you are probably correct - my figure is for the total number of guns sold (both legal and illegal).

I think that is probably too late to be trying to ban gun ownership in the US now - as I said, in the UK, gun restrictions started nearly 2 centuries ago, but stricter controls are needed. As was pointed out in one of the articles I posted, there is nothing stopping someone legally purchasing several guns - for what purpose? You only need 1 for defence, and there is no need whatsoever for automatics and semi-automatics.

 

[Marlo Manson]

In criminal possession, you are probably correct - my figure is for the total number of guns sold (both legal and illegal).

I think that is probably too late to be trying to ban gun ownership in the US now - as I said, in the UK, gun restrictions started nearly 2 centuries ago, but stricter controls are needed. As was pointed out in one of the articles I posted, there is nothing stopping someone legally purchasing several guns - for what purpose? You only need 1 for defence, and there is no need whatsoever for automatics and semi-automatics.

Well that's is plainly obvious here in the USA. that is what I have been trying to convey to you in a realistic arena, That collecting, purchasing, and the ability too bear arms has been the right of Americans for so long. that it would be absolutely impossible to actually confiscate the guns / firearms that are already amongst the population.

And if the US government were to impose a ban / confiscation bill. just like many have already stated it would prompt a civil war.

The militia's would be activated. everybody would defend their right to bear, collect, and purchase firearms as it was stated in the 2nd amendment of the constitution, as it is the part of the bill of rights that protects the rights too keep and bear arms.

It is way too late in this countries history for the dictators that are in charge as we speak.

Too, rewrite, reverse the law and then attempt such a bold and unwise decision too infringe against or take away our rights to keep, bear, and purchase weapons.

It would without a doubt, be a very costly decision for the government too try and confiscate the firearms that are in the populations possesion already. not to mention, structure, implement and last but not least enforce and regulate a ban of firearms. Its not gonna happen anytime soon. :nono: