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The "Liberal" media

parker

Only 3,000 posts until I get my FreeOnes shirt!
I saw Fahrenheit 9/11 today, and the one question I asked myself more than any other was, "Where was the media during all of this?" How could they be so blind as to ignore so many earth-shattering stories? I thought Bob Woodward (who was a key figure in exposing the Watergate scandal) lived for this stuff.

In the era of the so-called "Information Age" it's a disgrace that the government's actions have gone largely unchallenged by the media. Thirty years ago Nixon couldn't even break into a hotel room without everybody finding out about it.

P.S. Yes, I'm aware this could have been an added comment to the Michael Moore thread, but my topic goes beyond MM and his film. I'm curious to know what the hell is really going on in the media. Are they reall so "liberal?" Maybe Moore's already answered that question with one fact he presented in F911, that the Saudis own a good portion of Time-Warner.
 

Brino

Banned
I think the media is lazy. They dont do the hard stories because it's to hard to do them and they don't ask the tough questions because they are afraid of loosing access. The majority of the news I get comes from the web and the big news networks like CNN, MSNBC, and FOXNews report the news a day late after I already read the story on the net. If I had to label the media as anything it would be lazy or in the case of FOXNews conservative but not Liberal. I for one think we need a Liberal news network.
 

SovereignAxe

Closed Account
anyone who can't tell foxnews channel is conservative is blind. i work at my step grandpa's cafe and he leaves it on foxnews every day and supposedly he's not even a republican. but then again, he's not the brightest of folks.

what gets me about fox-besides their [sarcasm]fair and balanced[/sarcasm] stance on reporting-is how they always show the current LA car chases. as entertaining as they may be i think it's hilarious how they just stop everything and show some moron running from the "cops" (they frequently use that term instead of police) on national news television.
 

foxfilm

Reading this proves that you are a Porn Junkie.
Well stated, Parker!

(Here-here, for my English friends; It's the coolest communal expression of verbal agreement!)

SovereignAxe: Here-Here. Seen this?
http://www.outfoxed.org/Clips.php Includes great video from folks who worked there blowing the whistle.


Brino: Right on! Here's a couple of starters:
Air America: http://www.airamericaradio.com/

Free Speech TV: http://www.fstv.org/ (Available on some cable stations and satellite.)

Democracy Now/
http://www.democracynow.org/ (Includes a lot of radio interviews)

My rant:
IS TODAY'S MEDIA LIBERAL? NOT ACCORDING TO THE FOUNDING FATHERS...

First, American media, by Constitutional design and Founding Father assertion, was designed to be the most liberal of institutions. Checks and balances within government; checks and balances without between the people and their government via the press and it's investigative and editorial powers.

They rightfully saw the need for a perpetual watchful and inquisitive eye, probing to insure that the people were served first, and served well by their elected employees.

The media was to be used as a deterrent to tyranny; to prevent the powerful from exploiting the weak. Taxation without representation. You know, all that Revolutionary War stuff.

Some of the founders went to jail, and countless newpaper men and women were intimidated into silence when it came to arguments that put into question the rule of King George. (Oh, that is beautiful metaphorically: we now have King George II... but I digress.)

My point: The press was supposed to be respectful of all ideas, but especially critical of those presented by people with power and advantage, in favor of the common citizenry. (And no, not communist claptrap. FREEDOM. Without dissent, there is no freedom.)

It was a tv man, Edward R. Murrow, who brought down McCarthy and his House Unamerican Activities boys. It was TV that got us out of Viet Nam. It was newspaper guys who discovered watergate.

It was also William R. Hurst's media machine that got us into the Spanish American War. (Based on a totally fabricated event, repeated enough times and sensationalized enough the folks started believing it. Nazi Goebbles probably studied it. http://www.freeencyclopedia.com/html/G/Goebbels.asp) Same in the Phillipines. They bought the lies.

So historically the media has done good, and clearly done bad, depending upon who they owed their allegiances to: Big powerful government and monied interests, or their fellow citizens at large.

I would argue that their current allegiances lie with the people who are making them a member of the monied elite: their employers, who virtually all happen to be conservative to downight fascist ideologues and simpathizers. They're bought by the same people who bought the Republican Party. And they dumped the only true revolutionary and inventive thinker of the boy's club -- Ted Turner. (Fun Fact: Ted Turner GAVE AWAY $1 Billion -- that's with a B -- to the UN to promote world peace. Whether you believe in the UN or not, that's still the single largest philanthropic gesture ever. So of course the neocons had to get rid of him.)

Think there's going to be much dissention coming from station whose owner gave up millions of dollars to make sure a Republican is in the white house? (The sad thing, Dems are just about as bad, here, when it comes to taking money. But it just so happens that the bigger of the conglomerates all spend bigger on Republicans, and they've been well rewarded by FCC Head Michael -- would I have ever gotten this job if my dad wasn't Colin -- Powell.)

In all fairness to the reporters, the news business is just nuts, today. They're in a hyper-competetive, voraciuosly hungry environement where if you pause for a second to check anything, you're suddenly 3 stories behind. So your circle of contacts gets smaller and smaller, and you're more likely to spit out whatever the Administration literrally writes for you in press releases, just to hit a deadline. (There's a half a point of pity from me.)

But that still doesn't point away from the bottom line: Their own greed, egos, and fear of losing it all prevents them from asking the hard questions, AND DEMANDING ANSWERS.

Cheney's energy task force notes? Now. How do congressmen justify giving themselves a raise, when American wages are dropping? Why did we go to war with Iraq? Specific responses please, or the question gets asked again.

Exactly who was it that leaked a CIA agent's cover to conservative hack Bob Novak (CNN's Crossfire), who proceeds to commit a federal crime (if you're a member of the government) by revealing her identity to the world? He put her life in real danger and threatened national security by virtually destroying an operation that was in progress. The entire budget for that operation down the drain, and an agent's life put in jeopardy, along with those of her collaborating officers. But the administration can't find the leak?

But they sit back and page through the hand-out...

The founding fathers saw nothing more important than free speech: I'ts the First Amendment guaranatee. And the press is morally bound to use this power to insure that the people -- NOT THE POWERFUL -- are served first, and served well by their governing employees. This means they are to be tireless in their persuit of truth.

And when the truth is that the people are being taken for a ride, by a Republican, a Democrat, or anyone else, they have a responsibility to blow the whistle loud.

Kudos to CBS for breaking the Iraq prison scandal. But the rest is pretty few and far between when it comes to revelations from the press that help it's citizenry make intelligent decisions about their government, and about their lives.

The good news: George Pallast is looking out for us. So is Helen Thomas, god love her. http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/21/1353251

I've got a ton of links to media sources that will show you just how conservative the mainstream media is.

Anybody want to see them?

Keep things lively!
:hatsoff:
 

Inspector_XXX

When I grow up I’m gonna be a mod
I think Brino hit this one right on the head. On certain issues the media might have a liberal or conservative bias (for example, most reporters know openly gay people, so they aren't very likely to believe that gay marriage will destroy civilization), but their biggest overall failing is just pure laziness.

Most of these reporters will just take the spin from the first person they talk to and include it right in their story. Occasionally some of them will take the extra step of interviewing someone on the other side of the issue and including their viewpoint, too. But that just leaves the story as a "he-said, she-said" thing. Very few reporters will actually do their own investigating and try to uncover the truth.

One last thing: Fox News is obviously pro-Republican (which is not the same as being truly conservative), and they aggressively spin their stories in that direction. But as a result of that, they actually do a lot more hard news reporting than CNN. (After all, the more news you report, the more news you can spin.) And that's part of their appeal: people who are genuinely interested in what's going on in the world (and who don't want to see stupid shit like Britney's latest wedding) will find more interesting stuff on Fox than on CNN, even if Fox is blatantly spinning the stories in one direction.
 

parker

Only 3,000 posts until I get my FreeOnes shirt!
The point about the media being "lazy" is an interesting one, however, I don't know if that the best word to describe it.

I remember seeing an interview with Walter Cronkite years ago where he was asked to compare the current media with the news in his day. His response was that the role of the news department on network television had changed dramtically since he retired, that networks used to think of their news department as a source of pride, not revenue... I believe he said the news dept. was considered the "crown jewel" of the network. Now the news programmes are treated like any other show, where ratings are the only thing that matter. No doubt this has greatly affected how the news is now gathered and presented.

To bring this back to the idea that the networks are "lazy".... I think a more accurate term might be "competitive." It's all about ratings now, which means getting the most sensationalistic stories and airing them before the competition can. It only makes sense that everything else, like proper fact gathering techniques, would get left by the wayside.

Personally I don't believe the public is nearly as shallow or dumb as the networks like to believe. We still appreciate reporting that is in depth and sincere. 60 Minutes has been a top-ten rated show since it's inception and, whether or not you agree with Michael Moore, his films clearly demonstrate that the public still has a thirst for hard-hitting commentaries.
 
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Harsh truth: Print, TV, radio, and internet "news" is a business. Bottom-line. All media players are biased. They're run and owned by people. People are biased. People are also motivated first by survival (their jobs/careers) and the pursuit of power and wealth -- and that goes for all facets of the political spectrum.

Many news organizations TRY, honestly, to be unbiased and fair. Some don't at all. Some hedge the fence. Some are too small to be seen, heard, or read. Some are ubiquitous monoliths of "news."

Here's the thing: decent news editors try to run "the truth," but also to do so in the vein as best serves the shareholders of/and their employer. Occasionally, we see a renegade journalist or media outlet run a big story, regardless of the fallout. Then, there IS fallout. Oftentimes, the journalist is "run" out of the industry. Sometimes, the Whistleblower returns. Sometimes they fade into obscurity.

But sadly, because of the nature of the news industry, the biggest names with the biggest influence prevail upon the majority of people. That's not always bad, but we, as consumers of the product, the news, must be wise in our discernment of truth, hype, and out-and-out bullshit and bias.

It's all up to us, as it should be. Think, reason, and question things. Seek multiple sources for your information. Research. Learn. Investigate. If it matters to you, your family, and to those about whom you care, do the work and get your OWN perspective, absent the slant of each media outlet. Each presenter of "news" has their own "take" on things. Take from each what you see as fact and assemble the truth from them all.

That's my little "sermon" for tonight...lol

Cheers!
 
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parker

Only 3,000 posts until I get my FreeOnes shirt!
There is one more opinion I have regarding my original question, one that I'd refrained from making earlier as I hoped someone else would first. It is somewhat controversial, but nevertheless it's a thought I have frequently whilst watching the news.... that being that post 9/11 it's become socially unacceptable for the news to criticize the gov't. I often see them treating Bush and Co. with kid gloves, and I cannot help but think that the media does so in part because they afraid of being branded "un-American."

Just a thought........... :2 cents:
 

foxfilm

Reading this proves that you are a Porn Junkie.
Inspector XXX: How is it that Republican isn't "true conservative"? What is your definition of conservative? And please give us examples of "more news" appearing on Fox. That's an angle I've never seen anyone take before.

Can you give an example of a story that Fox has devoted time to that the others don't see as newsworthy?

Nightfly: Agreed, it's all up to us to find sources and think through the process. Any suggestions that would help us all get a more well balanced view of things? I'll start with the Guardian in the UK: http://www.guardian.co.uk. They actually pay investigative reporters like Pallast to get the inside poop. (And keep "sermonizing" man; the world's a better place for it!)

Parker: Agreed that the networks have been playing "lowest common denominator" for way too long. Where do we go for real news, then? Public radio?

Again, there are literally dozens of well researched, well written websites out there written by folks who are one hell of a lot brighter and better researchers than any of us hanging out here if anyone is interested. (Don't want to throw a bunch a links around without anybody requesting them.)

Thanks for keeping things lively, all!
 
Thanks for the compliment and the encouragement, foxfilm. Assumptions are dangerous, but should we assume by your User ID that you're a FOX News fan/loyalist? lol
 

Brino

Banned
parker said:
The point about the media being "lazy" is an interesting one, however, I don't know if that the best word to describe it.

I remember seeing an interview with Walter Cronkite years ago where he was asked to compare the current media with the news in his day. His response was that the role of the news department on network television had changed dramtically since he retired, that networks used to think of their news department as a source of pride, not revenue... I believe he said the news dept. was considered the "crown jewel" of the network. Now the news programmes are treated like any other show, where ratings are the only thing that matter. No doubt this has greatly affected how the news is now gathered and presented.

To bring this back to the idea that the networks are "lazy".... I think a more accurate term might be "competitive." It's all about ratings now, which means getting the most sensationalistic stories and airing them before the competition can. It only makes sense that everything else, like proper fact gathering techniques, would get left by the wayside.

Personally I don't believe the public is nearly as shallow or dumb as the networks like to believe. We still appreciate reporting that is in depth and sincere. 60 Minutes has been a top-ten rated show since it's inception and, whether or not you agree with Michael Moore, his films clearly demonstrate that the public still has a thirst for hard-hitting commentaries.

I agree that competitiveness is inpart why the news isn't doing their job but I still say their lazy. You can still stay competitive with other networks while investigating hard stories and doing indepth reporting. I mean it doesnt take much to get one reporter out the hundreds of reporters that work for these networks to actually investigate the truth instead of just repeating what the government says word for word or assuming that something is a certain way because statistics say so. I was watching a news story about a missing female jogger and within hours they started to talk about the husband possibly having killed her. Thats not competitiveness that's laziness that turns into competitiveness when theyd rather assume she's dead than wait and see if she's found. For crying out loud at least wait and see whether she's found or not and be the first to report that she's been found instead of the first to report that her husband did it.
 

Brino

Banned
parker said:
There is one more opinion I have regarding my original question, one that I'd refrained from making earlier as I hoped someone else would first. It is somewhat controversial, but nevertheless it's a thought I have frequently whilst watching the news.... that being that post 9/11 it's become socially unacceptable for the news to criticize the gov't. I often see them treating Bush and Co. with kid gloves, and I cannot help but think that the media does so in part because they afraid of being branded "un-American."

Just a thought........... :2 cents:

I dont think they are afraid of being branded Un-American I think they are afraid of loosing access.
 

Inspector_XXX

When I grow up I’m gonna be a mod
Originally posted by foxfilm
Inspector XXX: How is it that Republican isn't "true conservative"?

Quite simply, because "Republican" denotes a political party and "conservative" denotes a political philosophy. The two aren't the same, just as "Democrat" and "liberal" aren't the same.

Many conservatives are opposed to the idea of a pre-emptive war. Many conservatives are opposed to drastically un-balancing the federal budget. Many conservatives are opposed to federalizing the gay-marriage issue. If Fox News was a conservative organization they'd have people on to criticize the Bush administration for all these things. But they don't.

Let me make myself clear: I'm not quibbling about the "true" definition of conservatism. (I'm not a conservative anyway, so it's not for me to define.) I'm simply saying that Fox News is not pushing a political philosophy. They're pushing a political party. Fox News is pushing the idea of keeping one particular group of people in power, and they'll defend anything those people do.

Can you give an example of a story that Fox has devoted time to that the others don't see as newsworthy?

No, I can't. It's more of a general impression than anything else. I just think that one of the reasons they get viewers is that they spend more time on serious issues than, say, CNN. Pretty much the same reason Michael Moore's movie is so popular. Sure, it's biased, but it talks about a lot of things that most people have never heard of.
 

foxfilm

Reading this proves that you are a Porn Junkie.
Inspector

Regarding "conservative" vs "republican: Well differentiated, and clearly stated, sir. Thanks for the clarification.

One page I found interesting at their site that I'll admit I wouldn't have thought they would provide: links to anarchist and anarchism sites and resources. http://search.foxnews.com/_1_3MVUKK...p=1&start=&ver=10793&nextPageNum=&fastSearch=

I wonder if this in any way could make them "terrorist sympathisers" in the words of the contemporary P-Act? I hope not. That's one of the few hits I wouldn't like to see them take.

They did run a pretty scathing story about supposed anarchist plans for the conventions. (Of course, they never name their sources. It's always "a website", never the URL.) There's video of the story at the site, if anyone's interested.

I just hope to hell they don't give the authorities the opportunity to exploit the behavior of a few radicals to shut down dissent totally.

Has everybody seen the "free speech zone" they have set up in Boston? Just what the hell is up with the razor wire? (A buddy of mine reminded me that the wire may have been placed by the contractor doing the work there before it was to used as a protester holding pen.)

Last item on this: What's preventing protesters from just calmly walking along the sidewalks with everyone else, wearing signs and shirts with messages? I can see why Boston doesn't want folks clogging up the streets, but as long as you're moving, isn't it your right as a pedestrian to wear whatever you want and communicate that way?

Gonna be interesting...
 

parker

Only 3,000 posts until I get my FreeOnes shirt!
I agree with the inspector on the difference between conservative and Republican reporting. To give another example, an opposite of the one he gave, I'll mention Bob Novak (one of the few political commentators who I literally get ill listening to). In any event, he's often makes it clear that he's a conservative, not a Republican. What's the difference? Novak doesn't shy away from criticizing the GOP when they aren't conservative enough for his tastes. I'm not sure what would be "conservative enough" for Bob, however... some of his opinions sound like he's not even in the 20th century, much less the 21st. He probably wears a Quaker hat a home! lol!
 
Quaker hat...lmao Maybe his wife is Amish too?! lol

Robert Novak is a nasty, hateful old curmudgeon. He's good at what he does, but I will not be sad when he retires. The conservatives and neo-conservatives need new, fresh talent. They cannot hold their own any longer with old-ass white men only speaking for the party. Remember when Bush was running for President, how he was surrounding himself constantly with Hispanic/Latino/black people of influence, spouting off about "compassionate conservatism?" I've not heard of a SINGLE thing Bush has done to advance or assist the causes of those segments of the U.S. population... COmpassionate... Hmmmm....

We'll see what happens in November, I suppose! Should be exciting!!

parker said:
"...Bob Novak (one of the few political commentators who I literally get ill listening to). In any event, he's often makes it clear that he's a conservative, not a Republican...He probably wears a Quaker hat a home! lol!
 

foxfilm

Reading this proves that you are a Porn Junkie.
OK, gotta jump on the "Novak makes me ill" bandwagon... Not only is he just plain bad television on Crossfire, but the guy leaked the name of a CIA operative and endangered her life along with the lives of her fellow agents in a story that in no way demanded such information.

This is treason if you're a government official, and a move that the most radical leftist jouranlists wouldn't play any part in.

Of course, the White House just can't seem to find who leaked the name of the wife of a guy who hammered the Bush Administration over the yellow cake uranium + Saddam debacle. And Novak refuses to give up his source.

But I'll admit that the meaner side of me likes watching him get his clock cleaned regularly on Crossfire.

Oh, and speaking of "liberal media", while right wing hack Sean Hannity has a place of honor at the Democratic convention, Air America -- the struggling Democratic Network -- has been refused a space at the Republican convention.
 

parker

Only 3,000 posts until I get my FreeOnes shirt!
I don't know how many here watch PBS, but I saw an interesting interview the other day by Charlie Rose (a broadcaster I really like), with Ted Turner. One of the most fascinating parts of the interview came when Turner gave his thoughts on media mogul Rupert Murdoch... I believe he said something along the lines of, "Murdoch runs Britain, Australia, and would very much like to run the United States." As an example of Murdoch's power Turner recalled a discussion he'd had with Tony Blair whereby Turner chastised Blair for not taking a stand against Murdoch. Blair's response was basically, "I dare not chastise Murdoch... without him I could never have gotten elected. Nobody can."

Chilling words indeed, and when you consider that Murdoch remains completely unaccountable for his actions, (he won't even do interviews for chissakes), it just solidfies how powerful/dangerous this man is.

I didn't mind Charles Foster Kane as a fictional character... but the real thing? That's terrifying.
 
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