The "Obama Girl" finally came to her senses.

[Ace Boobtoucher]

I like her shorts.

 

[mongo18]

The concept of government is not a failure, the American implementation of government is. There's plenty of countries in the world with democratic governments that work great. The core of the division in this country is that some people want to fix it, some people want to give up on it, only they don't really have any ideas what to do beyond that.

 

[xfire]

Disenchantment is a bitch, who's to say where this young lady eventually lands politically. Listening to her now it doesn't seem she's got a leaning one way or the other, she's just another jaded former voter. That will probably change as another presidential election cycle gears up sometime next year. I can see her throwing in for Hillary the way she did for Obama in '08, she'll forget that they're all the same, convinced this time it will be different. Alas, she's just going to have to pick which poison she prefers and stick with it, it's not like she gave a ringing endorsement of republicans.

 

[Will E Worm]

She's too late. So, it doesn't matter.

The concept of government is not a failure, the American implementation of government is. There's plenty of countries in the world with democratic governments that work great. The core of the division in this country is that some people want to fix it, some people want to give up on it, only they don't really have any ideas what to do beyond that.

America is supposed to be a Constitutional Republic.


Which countries are you talking about?

Countries without private property rights and freedom of speech?

 

[Mayhem]

There's plenty of countries in the world with democratic governments that work great.

These tend to be tiny countries with tiny populations and no relevant standing on the world stage.

Another way of putting it: The next time something blows up, no one's first reaction will be, "I wonder what Norway thinks of all this."

 

[mongo18]

Which countries are you talking about?

Countries without private property rights and freedom of speech?

My home country, for a start, which consistently outranks the USA in any indicator of freedom you care to look up, along with plenty of other countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices

These tend to be tiny countries with tiny populations and no relevant standing on the world stage.

Another way of putting it: The next time something blows up, no one's first reaction will be, "I wonder what Norway thinks of all this."

So, you're saying those countries succeed where America fails because they don't have the power, resources, and presence of the USA?
To me, this is about the utility of the federal government. All over this country there are people who think we'd be better off without them, but fail to recognize how quickly the united states would fall apart. This girl says that it is pointless and it doesn't matter who the president is, so let's just give up and not bother anymore, which is a victory for the republicans who set out to prove that government doesn't work by making it not work. Anyone with a little common sense can see how quickly things have gone downhill since the government stopped working, and wouldn't hold out much hope for the future of the country without some serious reforms. Like I said before, the very vocal faction that thinks the federal government is the cause of all of the country's problems and wants to get rid of it doesn't really have much of a plan for the future of this country.

 

[Mayhem]

So, you're saying those countries succeed where America fails because they don't have the power, resources, and presence of the USA?

I'm saying that a cup of lemonade works better for 2 people than a gallon of lemonade works for 10. And neither Australia or anyone else shells out like the US. Australia didn't defeat the Soviet Union, America did. Australia neither led nor did anything the least bit significant in D esert Storm, America did. Australia is in no position to deal with Syria or Ukraine or Russia. America is doing its best which on its worst day is better than anyone elses. And there's a 1,001 other examples, great and small. I'm not saying any bit of this as an insult, but don't flatter yourself away from reality. Australia is not any kind of significant player on the world stage. Because of that your decisions become a hell of a lot easier.

Before you or anyone else starts in with everything we do wrong....I agree. Before you even say it (whatever "it" is), you're absolutely right. American foreign policy is a nightmare. Just like everyone else's. But we're stuck with ours. And this is one liberal who is also a staunch isolationist, like it's ever going to matter. So once again, I agree with whatever you were going to say next. But the point, the whole point and nothing but the point is....you have it easier than us.

To me, this is about the utility of the federal government. All over this country there are people who think we'd be better off without them, but fail to recognize how quickly the united states would fall apart. This girl says that it is pointless and it doesn't matter who the president is, so let's just give up and not bother anymore, which is a victory for the republicans who set out to prove that government doesn't work by making it not work. Anyone with a little common sense can see how quickly things have gone downhill since the government stopped working, and wouldn't hold out much hope for the future of the country without some serious reforms. Like I said before, the very vocal faction that thinks the federal government is the cause of all of the country's problems and wants to get rid of it doesn't really have much of a plan for the future of this country.

I actually typed out the above before I paid much attention to the rest (which I do sometimes). I have to say I am in pretty solid agreement with what you wrote here. So much so that I want to reiterate that I wasn't getting snippy with Australia. Or New Zealand. Or anywhere else. Good for you guys that you don't have the daily avalanche of bullshit that America has to contend with in foreign policy alone. But let's accept that you don't, and that makes life easier.

 

[mongo18]

Australia neither led nor did anything the least bit significant in Desert Storm, America did.

I'm going to pick on this because it's kind of a sore point with me. During the last gulf war Australian SAS was in Baghdad providing intelligence before the US had even entered the country. I remember reading an article at the time by one of the reporters who was kicked out of Baghdad prior to the invasion and he said the first people he met coming out of the city were Australian SAS. Don't be fooled by the size of the Australian contribution, our troops just get more done using less than yours.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_contribution_to_the_2003_invasion_of_Iraq
And you could argue all you like about the significance of the Australian contribution to the first gulf war, that's a judgement call, and while it's true that they didn't see combat, the Australian naval contingent provided support to the multinational operations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_contribution_to_the_1991_Gulf_War

 

[sean miguel]

The core of the division in this country is that some people want to fix it, some people want to give up on it, only they don't really have any ideas what to do beyond that.

Have given up on it. I don't even care enough to hate it.

apathy - it's fantastic.

 

[Will E Worm]

Australia... :1orglaugh

 

[sean miguel]

the u.s. can suck my dick, or not.

See, that's apathy.

 

[darkwarrior3007]

That's not the "Obama Girl".

 

[Mayhem]

I'm going to pick on this because it's kind of a sore point with me. During the last gulf war Australian SAS was in Baghdad providing intelligence before the US had even entered the country. I remember reading an article at the time by one of the reporters who was kicked out of Baghdad prior to the invasion and he said the first people he met coming out of the city were Australian SAS. Don't be fooled by the size of the Australian contribution, our troops just get more done using less than yours.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_contribution_to_the_2003_invasion_of_Iraq
And you could argue all you like about the significance of the Australian contribution to the first gulf war, that's a judgement call, and while it's true that they didn't see combat, the Australian naval contingent provided support to the multinational operations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_contribution_to_the_1991_Gulf_War

Y'know, just because I predicted that this would be your response, that doesn't mean you couldn't have gone another way. And it's not like I enjoy having my worst suspicions confirmed and you missing the point entirely.

 

[mongo18]

Re: The "Obama Girl" finally came to her senses.

Just because I chose to focus only on one point because it was 7 am on a Saturday and I'm sick of Americans being shocked and amazed that Australian forces were involved in all of your recent wars, doesn't mean I missed your point. In fact, I clearly stated at the start that I was choosing to only pick that one small part of what you said.
But fine, I concede, America can't have a functional representative government because it's just too damn important or something.

 

[Mayhem]

Well, it's 0315 on a Sunday and I still know what I'm talking about. And I'm sick of Australians being shocked and amazed that America has many more concerns, factors, concessions, expenditures, policies, and importance than you do. I have not only gotten this sort of thing from other Aussies on this board, but all over the internet. You guys actually think it's as easy being us as it is being you. And you use it to fuel your derision. It gets old.

 

[mongo18]

Re: The "Obama Girl" finally came to her senses.

Well the rest of the world is sick of America's "this could never work" and "that could never be done" attitude about things that are working in other countries all over the planet. So things are a bit tougher or more complicated because of world status? So what? Nobody gives a shit about your excuses. Dry your eyes princess. Everyone thinks their problems are the biggest.
This country has more resources than any other nation, but people can't get decent educations, until recently people couldn't go to see a doctor, people starve to death in the street, and absurd numbers of kids and innocents are being shot to death in "tragic, unavoidable" accidents. Enough with the whining and excuses.

 

[Lee Van Queef]

Leans right... Leans left... Who cares? Lean over so I can get me some! Shut up about politics too, 'ya bim!

 

[Mayhem]

Re: The "Obama Girl" finally came to her senses.

Well the rest of the world is sick of America's "this could never work" and "that could never be done" attitude about things that are working in other countries all over the planet. So things are a bit tougher or more complicated because of world status? So what? Nobody gives a shit about your excuses. Dry your eyes princess. Everyone thinks their problems are the biggest.
This country has more resources than any other nation, but people can't get decent educations, until recently people couldn't go to see a doctor, people starve to death in the street, and absurd numbers of kids and innocents are being shot to death in "tragic, unavoidable" accidents. Enough with the whining and excuses.

So now you speak for the rest of the world. And like so many, you bitch and moan about the country that you abandoned your own for. Typical. BTW, you and your cunning debate skills haven't distracted me from the fact that you still haven't returned to the point being discussed.

I've said it before, if Australia wants a place of leadership on the world stage, take it. You guys handle the next international crisis, and the next, and the next, and the next. Here's a start. How 'bout you idle heros go find those kidnapped girls? Go and effect a Russian withdrawl of forces from Ukraine. How about getting a handle on this Syrian thing, y'know like everyone expects and demands America to do. Hell, just volunteer to relocate UN headquarters to Sidney so the US can re-evalute if we even want to be a member. We've got China, Vietnam, Phillipines and others tapdancing their navies over who owns what. Take care of that for us, will ya? In other words, do something besides complain.

 

[bobjustbob]

Re: The "Obama Girl" finally came to her senses.

Hell, just volunteer to relocate UN headquarters to Sidney so the US can re-evalute if we even want to be a member.

Beautiful idea. We pay over 20% of the budget to run it plus what we send in as peacekeeping forces. Billions of dollars saved. Add in taking over that waterfront property on the east side of Manhattan. Make it a casino-hotel and turn those embassies into rental properties. Everyone pays taxes and no exemptions from parking tickets. Everyone wins.

 

[mongo18]

Re: The "Obama Girl" finally came to her senses.

So now you speak for the rest of the world. And like so many, you bitch and moan about the country that you abandoned your own for. Typical. BTW, you and your cunning debate skills haven't distracted me from the fact that you still haven't returned to the point being discussed.

I've said it before, if Australia wants a place of leadership on the world stage, take it. You guys handle the next international crisis, and the next, and the next, and the next. Here's a start. How 'bout you idle heros go find those kidnapped girls? Go and effect a Russian withdrawl of forces from Ukraine. How about getting a handle on this Syrian thing, y'know like everyone expects and demands America to do. Hell, just volunteer to relocate UN headquarters to Sidney so the US can re-evalute if we even want to be a member. We've got China, Vietnam, Phillipines and others tapdancing their navies over who owns what. Take care of that for us, will ya? In other words, do something besides complain.

The point being discussed was government, you started bitching and moaning about how hard it is to be so awesome. I left my home country reluctantly for personal reasons, and when the opportunity comes I'll take the first flight back and never return. Everything is better there, except the bbq.
Australia has taken the lead, they pretty much single handedly kicked the Indonesians out of East Timor in the 90's, and have been one of very few constant allies to the USA in every modern conflict for the last century or more.
But still, you're completely missing the point, that none of this has any fucking thing to do with your country's willingness to abandon its own people time after time. I think we agree on that, but while you want to piss and moan about how it's hard out there for a pimp, real progressives are trying to make things better.