unearthed photos show hiroshima aftermath

[Psychology]

My word. What gruesome pictures.

 

[L3ggy]

What gave them the right to drop that bomb?!

 

[meesterperfect]

Yeah it was gruesome and such a horrible wasteful thing, but i blame Japan because they started the whole god awful shitty mess.
Just think, if The Japanese were not stopped by the bombs they may have eventually suceeded in entering California, and that would have been a bloodbath on American soil.
A little footnote in history, actually a pretty big one.
In 1939 the japanese attacked Russia, the 2 fought horrendous battles but the Japanese eventually decided the Russian border was impenatrable.
They then concentrated thier forces on the South Pacific, hence Pearl Harbor and the U.S. entering WWII and eventually the tragedy of the atomic bomb.
Had The Japanese suceeded in invading Russia, Russia would then have had a 2 front war and more likely would have lost and been occupied by Germany and Japan.
Also this would have Gave the Germans much more force to the west against the U.S. and Great Britain and its likely the allies would have not suceeded in repelling the germans back to Berlin. In fact Great Britain and all of Europe may likely had been conquered by Germany eventually.
It basically changed the world as we know it today and for the past 69 years.

 

[Facetious]

Oh crappo, negator !
Did you have any idea that this was going to turn into another "The sun never sets on the US empire" thread !! :grins:


Honestly can't Mon. AM QB this topic. Wasn't there .

I have done a lot of thinking about this subject since at one time in my life I might have been called to do the same thing. I can't condem those that made the choice because I wasn't there and didn't have to face the decision. Would invading have been worse? That is very hard to say for certain but I think that is what Truman wrestled with before he ordered the attack

Superb ! :hatsoff: Bravo !

 

[negator]

Oh crappo, negator !
Did you have any idea that this was going to turn into another "The sun never sets on the US empire" thread !! :grins:

who knew?:dunno:

interview with a survivor

Interviewer: Can you explain the flash?

Takakura: Well, it was like a white magnesium flash. I lost consciousness right after or almost at the same time I saw the flash. When I regained consciousness, I found myself in the dark. I heard my friends, Ms. Asami, crying for her mother. Soon after, I found out that we actually had been attacked. Afraid of being caught by a fire, I told Ms. Asami to run out of the building. Ms. Asami, however, just told me to leave her and to try to escape by myself because she thought that she couldn't make it anywhere. She said she couldn't move. I said to her that I couldn't leave her, but she said that she couldn't even stand up. While we were talking, the sky started to grow lighter. Then, I heard water running in the lavatory. Apparently the water pipes had exploded. So I drew water with my helmet to pour over Ms. Asami's head again and again. She finally regained consciousness fully and went out of the building with me. We first thought to escape to the parade grounds, but we couldn't because there was a huge sheet of fire in front of us. So instead, we squatted down in the street next to a big water pool for fighting fires, which was about the size of this table. Since Hiroshima was completely enveloped in flames, we felt terribly hot and could not breathe well at all. After a while, a whirlpool of fire approached us from the south. It was like a big tornado of fire spreading over the full width of the street. Whenever the fire touched, wherever the fire touched, it burned. It burned my ear and leg, I didn't realize that I had burned myself at that moment, but I noticed it later.

Interviewer: So the fire came towards you?

Takakura: Yes, it did. The whirlpool of fire that was covering the entire street approached us from Ote-machi. So, everyone just tried so hard to keep away from the fire. It was just like a living hell. After a while, it began to rain. The fire and the smoke made us so thirsty and there was nothing to drink, no water, and the smoke even disturbed our eyes. As it began to rain, people opened their mouths and turned their faces towards the sky and try to drink the rain, but it wasn't easy to catch the rain drops in our mouths. It was a black rain with big drops.

Interviewer: How big were the rain drops?

Takakura: They were so big that we even felt pain when they dropped onto us. We opened our mouths just like this, as wide as possible in an effort to quench our thirst. Everybody did the same thing. But it just wasn't enough. Someone, someone found an empty can and held it to catch the rain.

Interviewer: I see. Did the black rain actually quench your thirst?

Takakura: No, no it didn't. Maybe I didn't catch enough rain, but I still felt very thirsty and there was nothing I could do about it. What I felt at that moment was that Hiroshima was entirely covered with only three colors. I remember red, black and brown, but, but, nothing else. Many people on the street were killed almost instantly. The fingertips of those dead bodies caught fire and the fire gradually spread over their entire bodies from their fingers. A light gray liquid dripped down their hands, scorching their fingers.

I, I was so shocked to know that fingers and bodies could be burned and deformed like that. I just couldn't believe it. It was horrible. And looking at it, it was more than painful for me to think how the fingers were burned, hands and fingers that would hold babies or turn pages, they just, they just burned away. For a few years after the A-bomb was dropped, I was terribly afraid of fire. I wasn't even able to get close to fire because all my senses remembered how fearful and horrible the fire was, how hot the blaze was, and how hard it was to breathe the hot air. It was really hard to breathe. Maybe because the fire burned all the oxygen, I don't know. I could not open my eyes enough because of the smoke, which was everywhere. Not only me but everyone felt the same. And my parts were covered with holes.

http://www.tamilnation.org/humanrights/hiroshima.htm

as horrible as the japanese soldiers were to their victims, the japanese people thought they were glorious heroes, laying the groundwork for a 'greater east-asian co-prosperity sphere'
is there an echo in here?

 

[KBM]

What gave them the right to drop that bomb?!

They had permission from God! Seriously... it ended a war that we nearly lost and it also showed the world the seriousness of atomic weapons. It happened the way it had to happen. We came up with it first, that's what gave us the right. Don't think for a second that had the enemy had it first we wouldn't have been toast. Cities and civilians were all fair game back then. Chemical weapons like mustard gas that are so unheard of today were also used. I am personally proud to be an American and proud of everything our country did. It's our country NOW that has me worried.

 

[Will E Worm]

What gave them the right to drop that bomb?!

The true rulers of the world. Who else?

They knew

 

[bodie54]

For those who doubt Japan's hawks were ready and willing to fight to the last man, woman and child; consider how starkly that's illustrated below:

The "one condition" (peace) faction, led by Togo, seized on the bombing as decisive justification of surrender. Koichi Kido, one of Emperor Hirohito's closest advisers, stated: "We of the peace party were assisted by the atomic bomb in our endeavor to end the war." Hisatsune Sakomizu, the chief Cabinet secretary in 1945, called the bombing "a golden opportunity given by heaven for Japan to end the war."

 

[Psychology]

Please correct me if I'm wrong (which I may very well be), but didn't the japanese emperor surrender, but the U.S wantend an unconditional surrender and the emperor refused to lose ALL of his dignity. Because he wouldn't bow to our knees, (so to speak) that's why we dropped the bomb.

Like I said, I could be wrong and if I am, please correct me.

 

[Transdurmal]

*Yawn*

Those pics don't show anything any more outrageous then the official photos taken by the US government.

And I just knew that some ignorant twatwaddlers would come in and start shrieking and bleating and pounding the floor and throwing a fucking temper tantrum about how the atomic bomb wasn't needed and wasn't justified and how Japan was on the verge, just seconds away from surrendering when they were betrayed.

Not even.

Even after the second bomb had been dropped on Nagasaki the war cabinet entertained no thoughts of surrender unless it was under the terms which the Allies had rejected four times before.

The Japs got what they had coming to them.

 

[dave_rhino]

What gave them the right to drop that bomb?!

What gave the Japanese the right to torture countless soldiers/civilians?

It's war, there is no right and wrong. Only war.

 

[negator]

Please correct me if I'm wrong (which I may very well be), but didn't the japanese emperor surrender, but the U.S wantend an unconditional surrender and the emperor refused to lose ALL of his dignity. Because he wouldn't bow to our knees, (so to speak) that's why we dropped the bomb.

Like I said, I could be wrong and if I am, please correct me.

i think it's laid out pretty well here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

specifically here

there's always room for revisionism, tinkering, tampering, second-guessing, tinfoil hat mumbling, armchair generalisms, conspiracy theorems, anti-trumanisms, rantings, ravings, oppenheimer opportunities, einsteinian ensembles, did-he-or-didn't-hes, and general ass-hattery. just say the word. . .

 

[Friday on my mind]

Good find Negator, always good to see more historic photos of one of the easily most important events of the 20th century.:thumbsup:

Actually there is a debate over whether it is a war crime. It is not a settled issue like you might wish it was. I don't care what some joke of an international organization says. The failures of the UN show just how much a joke so many of those organizations are. And there is a huge difference between if a country did that to us today and us doing it to the japanese then. For one, we are not using our military for expansionist purposes. Sure we influence other countries and things like globalization make American companies, media, etc. present in other countries. But this is entirely different from what the Japanese or the Nazis did which is to entirely claim the country as their own. Say whatever you want about Iraq, but no one in their right mind seriously thinks that once the conflict is resolved it will be a US territory.

Its rather sickening you hate your country but find it ok to defend Tojo's Japan which tortured and killed tons of Koreans and other Asians. I am not saying our country is perfect. Far from it, from the treatment of the native americans to slavery to racism and sexism and everything else, we are far from perfect. But we are the best there is. Even just the fact you can type a response flaming the government should show you how great the rights we have are compared to other countries like World War II era Japan.

As far as how this is apparently unjustifiable, I am sorry youd rather be speaking Japanese or German right now and living under a totalitarian system like they favored.

My only comment here is that while we may not be actually going to "take over " Iraq and keep it as a possesion or colony officially they are under our control more or less and only are allowed to take actions we approve of.We are talking about permanent american bases there,I don't think the majority of iraqis would vote for that.Democracies are every bit as capable of imperalism as dictatorships are.The English who preceded us as the power of the western world were also a democracy but that didn't stop them from being imperalistic eithier.

I was too young for it (i am a Reagan baby) but did people really think hiding under desks etc. would save them if the Soviets nuked us? seems like a dumb planning choice... dont think a desk would withstand a nuclear attack or shock

As an Eisenhower baby let me tell you yes civil defense was very much promoted during the 50s with drills for children and lots of people building bomb shelters for their families.What happened was that as the power of the bombs grew with the developement of the Hydrogen bomb which were many many times more powerful than the original atomic bombs it became clear that these defense plans would not save you from an attack.And as Kruschev ( the leader the USSR in the 50s and early 60s) said once about nuclear war's aftermath,"The living will envy the dead".With all the radiation and fall out you would probably die soon afterwards anyway and it would be a slow painfull death at that.

They had permission from God! Seriously... it ended a war that we nearly lost and it also showed the world the seriousness of atomic weapons. It happened the way it had to happen. We came up with it first, that's what gave us the right. Don't think for a second that had the enemy had it first we wouldn't have been toast. Cities and civilians were all fair game back then. Chemical weapons like mustard gas that are so unheard of today were also used. I am personally proud to be an American and proud of everything our country did. It's our country NOW that has me worried.

Just for the record chemical weapons were not used by eitheir side in WW2 to any great degree.They had been used in ww1 but both sides refrained from their use in ww2 and most experts think they would not have been a big factor if they had been used.

I wouldn't classify it as a war crime but it was brutal and awful. I do believe entirely though, particularly with the Japanese Kamikaze attitude at the time, it was the only way to end the war with Japan. A ground invasion would have lead to so many more lives, both Japanese and Americans. So yes, it is awful but in my eyes, the Japanese people who had to suffer through it had no one to blame but their own arrogant government

Actually it was the bulk of the Japanease people who could not see themselves surrendering not just their govt.And yes without the bomb it is possible that the war might have continued and resulted in many american as well as japanease deaths.Espeically since we were insisiting on unconditional surrender with no guarantee the emperor would be alloed to remain in some capacity.Ironic that he was allowed to stay after the surrender.If we had said that they may have surrended withiut the bomb being used.But there were other motivations also for the use of the bomb then just Japans surrender.First we had poured a lot of resources into its developement and when you do that it is very hard to not justify that by using the fruits of that investment by any govt.Second was we were anxious to demonstrate our new super weapon to the world(namely the russians) to show the power we had become in the world.Third was we were anxious ourselves to see how they really worked in actual use.Hiroshima and Nagasaki were delibertly chosen as they had been relatively untouched by our conventional bombs up to that point.We wanted to study them(and did)after our attacks to see just what kind of damage cities subjected to atomic attacks incurred.

What about the fact that while our politicans are crazy we have a fairly balanced elected system where as nutcases like Kim Jong Il and Ahmedinijad and to some extent Al-asad are given almost unlimited power

power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. There is a huge difference between a nutcase president whose power is diffused by other branches of government (assuming the us president was a nutcase for instance) and a nutcase who controls everything and has absolute power over their country

As I said before democracies are just as capable of attacks and invasions as anyone else is.Just ask the people of Vietnam or Iraq if being killed by americans feels any different.Sometimes democracies can even be more dangerous as they are more subject to a mob mentatlity than dictators are.Not saying that I support dictatorships lol,my point is I do not beleive the world would be free of wars and conflicts if just everyone had a democracy.





The use of the bomb was probably ineviatable given the circumstances at the time.And let me say for sure the right people won ww2.The Germans and japanease were more of a threat to more people in the world than the allies were for sure.I really don't see such things as in terms of good or evil very much.They are what humans do and will probably continue to do if a lot of enlightened consiouness is not used.Won't matter much if we ever have a big nuclear exchange who could claim more they were the good guys will it?
All this talk about how other nations should not be trying to possess nukes while we continue to develope new ones is not going to fly.We all should renouce them and move towards disarmament as much as possible.Huge stockpiles of them possesed by anyone is just a disaster waiting to happen.:2 cents:

 

[Jagger69]

Oh fuck not this again. Goddammit....how many horrific pictures of the aftermath of warfare can somebody find??? YES...it was a horrible decision that had to be made at the time. I wonder how many of you motherfuckers (not everyone here included of course!) would have been willing to take the place of an American soldier who would have been involved in an amphibious assault on Kyushu....Shikoku....Honshu....Hokkaido???? How many pictures of American bodies would we be able to show of that fucking campaign??? How many other Japanese soldiers and civilians would have been killed in an American invasion of Japan? How many saturation-bombing sorties would our B-29s have made on Japanese cities like Tokyo, Yokohama, Osaka, Kobe, Nagoya....cities with much bigger populations than Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

My grandfather died in combat in WWII. I never saw the picture of his body after the Germans killed him but I bet it wasn't pretty. Give up on this subject....we didn't start the fucking war but we damn sure ended it. The lesson to be learned is don't go down the road toward global conquest unless you are prepared to suffer the consequences.

It blows me away how many people sound off on this forum that don't know shit about history.

 

[Jagger69]

LGC- liberal guilt complex.

Read my post above. Read a bunch of my other posts and tell me which side of the political fence I ride. I am a liberal. I have asked you before what "liberal guilt complex" means and you have never explained it. Please do so now or please quit bringing it up. It's one of those convenient "catch-all" phrases that doesn't mean a fucking thing but makes bail-out give-up conservatives like you feel better about themselves. Enjoy Medellin, pal.

 

[thapie]

it certainly was a drastic event and i think it will be good that it is never forgotten.there will always be maniacal threats on the world but i do hope past events can help moderate those threats.

 

[Jagger69]

i think it's laid out pretty well here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

specifically here

there's always room for revisionism, tinkering, tampering, second-guessing, tinfoil hat mumbling, armchair generalisms, conspiracy theorems, anti-trumanisms, rantings, ravings, oppenheimer opportunities, einsteinian ensembles, did-he-or-didn't-hes, and general ass-hattery. just say the word. . .

Interesting even though Wikipedia is hardly an impeccable source. Note these quotes form the article:

"After six months of intense firebombing of 67 other Japanese cities"

Where are the pictures of these operations?

"Six days after the detonation over Nagasaki, on August 15, Japan announced its surrender to the Allied Powers, signing the Instrument of Surrender on September 2, officially ending the Pacific War and therefore World War II."

There's the answer for those who think the Japanese had already surrendered. Not true. Still not convinced? Read on:

"On July 26, Truman and other allied leaders issued The Potsdam Declaration outlining terms of surrender for Japan. It was presented as an ultimatum and stated that without a surrender, the Allies would attack Japan, resulting in "the inevitable and complete destruction of the Japanese armed forces and just as inevitably the utter devastation of the Japanese homeland" but the atomic bomb was not mentioned. On July 28, Japanese papers reported that the declaration had been rejected by the Japanese government. That afternoon, Prime Minister Kantaro Suzuki declared at a press conference that the Potsdam Declaration was no more than a rehash (yakinaoshi) of the Cairo Declaration and that the government intended to ignore it (mokusatsu)"

I truly resent those who try to make the USA out to be some immoral monster concerning this issue. WE ENDED THE FUCKING WAR and those of you in Europe and Asia have us to thank for your continued right of self-determination. I'm as critical of my country as anyone here concerning current events but you need to re-read the history books before you condemn us for dropping the bomb when we did. It was....and remains....the correct decision.

 

[Legzman]

One small step for man...one giant leap backward for man kind...

 

[Funkwerkz]

This is not different from what Nazis did to Jewish people. Nazis did it slowly and USA did it instantly. Both are war crimes.

I think a war is fought between the armies. If a country begins to attack the non-armed people of opposite country, it is a crime, war crime.

Nuclear weapons are like the dangerous lightinings of Zeus brought by Prometheus to humanity. Nuke Club is very very stupid right now, they are all governed by incompenent people.

I demand Cold War II right now. USA begins to lose control and we need a politic and economic balance. Seriously, why does the USA need an enemy to keep things tight? USA always needs enemies, they still apply war economy that is out of fashion.

""

One small step for man...one giant leap backward for man kind...

Awesome quote, man!""


Use nuclear power to discover far stars and planets!!!

 

[Nomad 800]

Biggest single war crime in history. I understand the debate about it stopping the war early and thus saving lives, but such pics bring home how destructive nukes are.

Actually, more people died and mostly in a worse way in the US fire bombing of Tokyo then either atomic bombing. Most of the Tokyo deaths were from burns and suffocation. Most of the atomic deaths were instant as they were vapourized.

Also, it was a standing order that if the Japanese home islands were successfully invaded that all Allied prisoners held in the Imperial Japanese Empire were to be executed. The atomic bombings caused the Japanese to surrender without an invasion and thusly 10's of thousands of Allied prisoners lives were spared.

Just a couple of facts to add.