When Do You Think That Obama Is Going To Switch To The Middle?

[Friday on my mind]

To answer the question directly Obama is and has been in the "middle".Center left yes but still very much in the center.If he were a lefty he would be proposing a single payer govt run health care plan for one as well as dramatic cuts in corporate welfare and defense spending.But he has not and will not be proposing such.He is a pragmatic politician looking to not do anything that would stir up strong passions and hurt his re-election chances.He may have stirred up some passions on health care but that really says more about his critics and the american people then it does about him.

But for some all dems are far left so they will never accept Obama as being in the middle.Not being far right don't make you a lefty.:tongue:

 

[don_equis]

I would say you're making up things as you go and/or not paying attention to the facts.

Obama ran on such things as expanding the war in Afghanistan, making decisions based on pragmatism and being a bipartisan president for all Americans.

He's always said the 2nd amendment confers an individual right to keep and bear arms...that he would strike unilaterally in places upon actionable intelligence (and has done so) and work with republicans to get things done....certainly not wacky, leftist positions.

If you're on the "left" and because of those stances you are disillusioned now, I would say you heard what you wanted to hear during the campaign and not what he said. If you're on the "right" and you now believe he's moving to some center I would say you too heard what you wanted to hear (if you even listened in the first place) and not what he said.

So in effect, your question is pretty moot.

BTW, speaking of hearing what you want and not what's said, when did Obama say he was releasing the prisoners detained in GiTMO?

Leftist radical, it's the new black!

You mean like the "in thing in fashion" like "the ipod is the new black"?
I know you are not throwing the over use "racist card"..oh brother I am practically the same skin color than Obama is, just of latin heritage and really don't think that I am racist.

Hot Mega....
Did you not read the part where I said "let's imagine..."

Any coincidence of what I just siad with what might be happening is just coincidence.

1. Yes people hear what they want hear and in Obama's case big time "selective hearing"...Did he not run as a moderate last year?

Yet if they paid attention to what lil information comes out of his speeches and if you include Pelosis big "economic stimulus" loaded with social programs on steroids, you would have seen that his was a leftist agenda of unlimited goverment expansion...but no none paid attention not even with his radical friends, that would never happened? it's ridiculous to even think about it! How's his report card so far? But then again I might be making stuff up this guy was never to the left otherwise he would have openly backed "gay marriage"

2. This president does not care what the republicans or any other group opposing his agenda says or want. Did he not told republicans "to get out of the way and let them fix this mess"? Did you really said the word "bipartisan" along with Obama? what are you talking about? have you been keeping track the voting record in Congress when it comes to big controversial laws?

How many republicans voted for the so called "stimulus"? I call it bailout!
How many republicans voted in the house for the so called "Climate Bill" that is just waiting to get killed in the senate?
How many have said that they would vote for this "health car reform bill"? He's got his supermajority his democrats can pass this but they are not even sure they want it.

Shit even Bush was more bipartisan that Mr. O did he not get both sides to vote on the war in Iraq wit that faulty WMD info?
How about that Patriot Act, did not the dems and repubs vote alike for it?
How about when he lifted the ban on off shore drilling which was followed by a democrat controlled congress.

3. Yeah listen very carefully to what he says, you will get more info that the media will get from him with their "softball" questions.

Oh BTW here's something for that faint memory of yours:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU95anFN6B0 - Obama signs to close Gitmo within a year Jan 22, 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OaVgUMRC3U - Obama to release Gitmo into the U.S. March 29, 2009

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/11/AR2009061101210.html - Administration Gives Up on Bringing Cleared Inmates to U.S June 12, 2009

http://pubrecord.org/world/4759/growing-number-guantanamo-detainees/ - Growing Number of Guantanamo Detainees Cleared For Release Remain Imprisoned Sep 6, 2009

An excerpt from that last link:

Since the Supreme Court ruled last year that inmates at Guantanamo Bay have a right to go to federal court to challenge their detention, detainees have filed more than 150 such lawsuits.

Google is a wonderful tool, when it come to finding "facts"...thank me later

 

[don_equis]

To answer the question directly Obama is and has been in the "middle".Center left yes but still very much in the center.If he were a lefty he would be proposing a single payer govt run health care plan for one as well as dramatic cuts in corporate welfare and defense spending.But he has not and will not be proposing such.He is a pragmatic politician looking to not do anything that would stir up strong passions and hurt his re-election chances.He may have stirred up some passions on health care but that really says more about his critics and the american people then it does about him.

But for some all dems are far left so they will never accept Obama as being in the middle.Not being far right don't make you a lefty.:tongue:

Thank you for your answer maybe he is "center left"?

About the single payer govt run health care here's a collection of statements made by him where he says this can happen overnight and his big plan of making it happening in ten years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk# - SHOCK UNCOVERED: Obama IN HIS OWN WORDS saying His Health Care Plan will ELIMINATE private insurance

But then again we hear what we want to hear and this is just "cherry picked" statements that "he really did not mean that".

You sure about not setting cuts if not in corporate welfare but in pay raises and limits on how much they can make?

I think he already proposed cuts in defense...

 

[Legzman]

Really? I thought he was trying to get us out of Iraq, salvage the war in Afghanistan, get the economy off of life support and solve the untenable, escalating costs of healthcare....:dunno:

By throwing money, tons of money at shit hoping to fix it is not the answer. Its only a bandaid on several very deep wounds. I dunno how to fix all the shit wrong with this country, but throwing our tax money away and pushing the national debt to mind numbing figures is not the answer.

I wonder when china is gonna come knocking? They are like a loan shark for the US and we are into them so deep, they're gonna come "break our legs" eventually...

 

[busenbust]

^Agreed. The issuance of IMF Bonds, paid for in the Chinese yuan (not the Dollar) a few weeks back was noteworthy. Ok, it could be a one-off but if it's the beginning of a trend...Oh boy! :wave2: $$$$

 

[Facetious]

I don't even know if the most leftist radical president ever would ever switch to the center! Could it be after the Democrats lose control of Congress in fall of 2010? or he never will change his ways and continue in this self destruct one termer mode that he curently is?

You know, I thought the exact same thing in the kitchen when I got up for a "midnight snack" at 3 am the other morning.

Answer to your question :Yes he will continue on with his destructive anti American ways.

I believe with every fiber of my being that this president despises the "traditional America" and everything it stands for, past and present and it's disheartening for me to have to say such a thing, the man is just obsessed with socialism, if anybody sees different please convince me otherwise.

It takes guts to remain free ! Have some, will you ! :hatsoff:

 

[Mrs Jolly]

For Don Equis

I was indeed being flippant with ethe gag about "the new black." I most certainly did not mean to imply that you were in any fashion of that mindset. Please accept my apologies.

For those on the right screaming for fiscal responsibility, welcome to the club. Dear old Andrew Sullivan (amongst many others) was excommunicated from republican circles for banging this drum for tha past 8 years. Have a quick gander at this it lays it out succinctly.


http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/09/movement-conservatism-and-debt.html

 

[Mrs Jolly]

You know, I thought the exact same thing in the kitchen when I got up for a "midnight snack" at 3 am the other morning.

Answer to your question :Yes he will continue on with his destructive anti American ways.

I believe with every fiber of my being that this president despises the "traditional America" and everything it stands for, past and present and it's disheartening for me to have to say such a thing, the man is just obsessed with socialism, if anybody sees different please convince me otherwise.
It takes guts to remain free ! Have some, will you ! :hatsoff:

I have a tendency towards the patronising, I apologise in advance if you think it is evident in the following, I do not wish it to be.

In my youth I spent a number of years at a very old university in England. I was lucky enough to be able to study what was in that period of my life a passion: politics. The first year of this course was spent grinding through the big themes, labels and names. When it was over students were hoped to be in possession of the building blocks. At the risk of sounding arrogant, I am conversant with what socialism is. President Obama is to socialism what Gary Coeman is to basketball. It is not what they do and even if they took it up full time it is highly unlikely that they would ever get a result.

It can be a bit boring but there are a number of introductory political texts that lay out the terms. I remain confident that any adult with average reading competancies will not get through one of these books with the notion that Obama is a socialist still intact.

With regards to Obama the man, am I right in assuming you have not read his first volume of memoir. It is well regarded for a non ghost written book by a pol. I never read a review that saw it as anything remotely like a veiled diatribe against the country of his birth. In recent history I feel that Obama, a coloured son of an immigrant who replaced one dynastic president by first defeating a woman under the impression that the presidency was a silver wedding anniversay present and later a high born multi millionaire, is the best examplar of all that is best about America. In a nutshell it doesn't get anymore "American dream" than that. I'm not sure why this would then translate into hating everything about america.

With regards to tradition I am always amused to see that people have no problem taking on board the cultural changes and demographics in the US from 1650 to 1750 or from 1750 to 1850 and so on, until they absorb the differences that will inevitably occur from 1950 to 2050 when half of them just freak out as if the country is being "stolen".

 

[HELLRAISER]

this thread is bullshit. Obama is a moderate and claming Obama is a leftist radical commie president is intellectually dishonest but expecting NeoCons to be anything but is sure asking for too much

 

[don_equis]

For Don Equis

I was indeed being flippant with ethe gag about "the new black." I most certainly did not mean to imply that you were in any fashion of that mindset. Please accept my apologies.

For those on the right screaming for fiscal responsibility, welcome to the club. Dear old Andrew Sullivan (amongst many others) was excommunicated from republican circles for banging this drum for tha past 8 years. Have a quick gander at this it lays it out succinctly.


http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/09/movement-conservatism-and-debt.html

I am like an onion, just like Shrek said and thus have layers of skin and I am not so easily offended. No need for apologies I did not think that's what you wanted to acuse me of that. Reality is that yes there are still racist people in the U.S. and a number of them are not happy with our first bi racial president but they are not the majority in the group of people that opposes Obama. For some reason those on the left love to greatly exagerate this fact.

this thread is bullshit. Obama is a moderate and claming Obama is a leftist radical commie president is intellectually dishonest but expecting NeoCons to be anything but is sure asking for too much

This here ^ this statement ^ is what messed up in this country if we are agaisnt Obama going to the left then we are : " intellectually dishonest but expecting NeoCons" quoting HELLRAISER...(When did I called him a "commie")
we might be white middle age racist men, rightwing wingnuts, rednecks, being paid by the health insurances, fringe, birthers,tea baggers, etc...

why can't a person like me be a moderate middle class result of the melting pot latino that dissagreed with Bush and his crazy ass eigfht years of lying and inciting fear on americans and now I am seeing the same but in the opposite direction from Obama that soemtimes uses some of Bushlike tactics to instill fear.

How bout instead of saying the "I am left wing democrat" or "I am a right wing republican" and come to the middle of the road and give some people what they want and others what they want to and stop leaning one way or the other for the better of this country or we will just self destruct ourselves.

 

[meesterperfect]

Oboma is so far to the left he's 3/16 to the right.

 

[Nester6]

You know, I thought the exact same thing in the kitchen when I got up for a "midnight snack" at 3 am the other morning.

Answer to your question :Yes he will continue on with his destructive anti American ways.

I believe with every fiber of my being that this president despises the "traditional America" and everything it stands for, past and present and it's disheartening for me to have to say such a thing, the man is just obsessed with socialism, if anybody sees different please convince me otherwise.

It takes guts to remain free ! Have some, will you ! :hatsoff:

Not only is this man a radical, left socialist, but the group surrounding him namely Pelosi ,Reid and Barney Frank are completely out of touch with America and will suffer huge mid term losses as America is waking up to their blatant attempt to have government run everything at any cost.

 

[Facetious]

At the risk of sounding arrogant, I am conversant with what socialism is. President Obama is to socialism what Gary Coeman is to basketball.

Really ? Socialism is the attempt to break down self-interest in favor of a more "common progression", don't you hear the president speak the theme ?

The "O"man is a socialist, it's just that he has to employ things in a clandestine and incremental manner so that he won't disrupt the hornets nest . . . of which happens to be bussin' in a vendetta kind of mood more and more with each passing day as The People, both democrats as well as republicans are finally catching on.

I'm simply trying to determine what strain of socialism the frosh senator of Illonois, now president, represents.... and it appears that he's of the Fabian strain but I just can't be certain quite yet.

 

[Dexter Brown]

 

[HELLRAISER]

This here ^ this statement ^ is what messed up in this country if we are agaisnt Obama going to the left then we are : " intellectually dishonest but expecting NeoCons" quoting HELLRAISER...(When did I called him a "commie")
we might be white middle age racist men, rightwing wingnuts, rednecks, being paid by the health insurances, fringe, birthers,tea baggers, etc...

why can't a person like me be a moderate middle class result of the melting pot latino that dissagreed with Bush and his crazy ass eigfht years of lying and inciting fear on americans and now I am seeing the same but in the opposite direction from Obama that soemtimes uses some of Bushlike tactics to instill fear.

How bout instead of saying the "I am left wing democrat" or "I am a right wing republican" and come to the middle of the road and give some people what they want and others what they want to and stop leaning one way or the other for the better of this country or we will just self destruct ourselves.

By me me saying that NeoCons are intellectually dishonest is not messing up this country. What has messed up this country are right wing extremists who are pissed off that Obama isn't extremely right wing as NeoCons are, so they try to paint him with red commie brush strokes, but the fact of the matter is Obama is purple.

 

[Member2019]

Again, that doesn't describe Clinton well during his first few years until the Republicans got back control of Congress. It also doesn't describe the current rate in change of the surplus at his exit which went to a deficit the first few months W. was in office.

But yes, Republicans aren't fiscally conservative, and they haven't been for a long time. Clinton, to his credit, worked with the Republican Congress after his budget was busting in 1993-1994. Of course, much of the de-regulation passed in 1995-1998 has a lot to do with the issues today.

Although I'll give Clinton some credit, he didn't deflect that blame either. He stands by some of it and, frankly, it wasn't Clinton's fault. It is the fault of the professionals who were lax in their responsibilities, as well as consumers stupid enough to not know better.

In any case, outsourcing and H1Bs equally blossomed under Clinton and W., and our consumer-based economy accelerated under both as well. This was done before either of them, and we've been fucked for decades.

 

[Hot Mega]

Thank you for your answer maybe he is "center left"?

About the single payer govt run health care here's a collection of statements made by him where he says this can happen overnight and his big plan of making it happening in ten years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk# - SHOCK UNCOVERED: Obama IN HIS OWN WORDS saying His Health Care Plan will ELIMINATE private insurance

But then again we hear what we want to hear and this is just "cherry picked" statements that "he really did not mean that".

You sure about not setting cuts if not in corporate welfare but in pay raises and limits on how much they can make?

I think he already proposed cuts in defense...

Yes!!! You still hear what you want or you're so easily mislead that you allow people to misrepresent statements that are in plain view.

The elimination of "employer based coverage" means not having your health care coverage dependent on your job. It could mean a public heath care coverage option (a word you apparently missed over an over in that video) and/or making your private coverage portable...meaning if you change or lose your job you don't lose your health care coverage as it would no longer be employer related whether it's public OR private coverage.

Some of you simpletons need to seriously stop listening to how something sounds to you and listen to what words are being said and what those words actually mean in statements.

 

[Hot Mega]

You mean like the "in thing in fashion" like "the ipod is the new black"?
I know you are not throwing the over use "racist card"..oh brother I am practically the same skin color than Obama is, just of latin heritage and really don't think that I am racist.

Hot Mega....
Did you not read the part where I said "let's imagine..."

Any coincidence of what I just siad with what might be happening is just coincidence.

1. Yes people hear what they want hear and in Obama's case big time "selective hearing"...Did he not run as a moderate last year?

Obama ran as a Democrat, his positions (those he laid out in his campaign) and beliefs (he laid out in his interviews) are the exact same ones he implementing now. The way he's approaching them is the exact same way he said he would, pragmatically and with bipartisanship. The problem is too many people keep buying into the 3 card monty game the GOPers play. They are little more than obstructionists attempting to prevent political wins by their opponent. Case in point....they're first talking point is Obama doesn't need a single republican vote, why doesn't he just pass his initiatives with Democrats?? Then in the next breath they claim Obama is not being bipartisan when finally says he's done playing games with GOPers.:dunno:

3. Yeah listen very carefully to what he says, you will get more info that the media will get from him with their "softball" questions.

Oh BTW here's something for that faint memory of yours:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU95anFN6B0 - Obama signs to close Gitmo within a year Jan 22, 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OaVgUMRC3U - Obama to release Gitmo into the U.S. March 29, 2009

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/11/AR2009061101210.html - Administration Gives Up on Bringing Cleared Inmates to U.S June 12, 2009

http://pubrecord.org/world/4759/growing-number-guantanamo-detainees/ - Growing Number of Guantanamo Detainees Cleared For Release Remain Imprisoned Sep 6, 2009

An excerpt from that last link:

Since the Supreme Court ruled last year that inmates at Guantanamo Bay have a right to go to federal court to challenge their detention, detainees have filed more than 150 such lawsuits.

Google is a wonderful tool, when it come to finding "facts"...thank me later

Those are videos of what people at places like Fox are saying in misrepresenting the facts. Obama ran on closing GiTMO. Closing a prison does not automatically mean you are now releasing all of those held there. They're being transferred to prison(s) in the CONUS. Bush released more detainees from GiTMO who WERE terrorists that returned to terrorist activities than anything Obama has even considered.

Those in the one video they're claiming Obama is going to release are individuals that have been determined to be no threat but no one wants them in their country....what do you do with those people.

Detaining these people (where ever the end up) is a stop gap in the justice system. They will be tried at some point then sentence if found guilty. You can't just hold people indefinitely....that is state sponsored kidnapping.

 

[don_equis]

Yes!!! You still hear what you want or you're so easily mislead that you allow people to misrepresent statements that are in plain view.

The elimination of "employer based coverage" means not having your health care coverage dependent on your job. It could mean a public heath care coverage option (a word you apparently missed over an over in that video) and/or making your private coverage portable...meaning if you change or lose your job you don't lose your health care coverage as it would no longer be employer related whether it's public OR private coverage.

Some of you simpletons need to seriously stop listening to how something sounds to you and listen to what words are being said and what those words actually mean in statements.

Obama ran as a Democrat, his positions (those he laid out in his campaign) and beliefs (he laid out in his interviews) are the exact same ones he implementing now. The way he's approaching them is the exact same way he said he would, pragmatically and with bipartisanship. The problem is too many people keep buying into the 3 card monty game the GOPers play. They are little more than obstructionists attempting to prevent political wins by their opponent. Case in point....they're first talking point is Obama doesn't need a single republican vote, why doesn't he just pass his initiatives with Democrats?? Then in the next breath they claim Obama is not being bipartisan when finally says he's done playing games with GOPers.:dunno:


Those are videos of what people at places like Fox are saying in misrepresenting the facts. Obama ran on closing GiTMO. Closing a prison does not automatically mean you are now releasing all of those held there. They're being transferred to prison(s) in the CONUS. Bush released more detainees from GiTMO who WERE terrorists that returned to terrorist activities than anything Obama has even considered.

Those in the one video they're claiming Obama is going to release are individuals that have been determined to be no threat but no one wants them in their country....what do you do with those people.

Detaining these people (where ever the end up) is a stop gap in the justice system. They will be tried at some point then sentence if found guilty. You can't just hold people indefinitely....that is state sponsored kidnapping.

Your arguments are flawed, perharps because you are being partisan yourself or held captive by your ideology? I have no affiliation to no party and or rigtht wing or left wing group and despised the lies that Bush was selling to this country for the entire 8 years he was in office and boy did Obama have been lying and getting away with what he says and no one but Joe had called him out in public.

Obama has talked a lot of shit over and over and you simpletons ( I am just borrowing your term) and the media just throw softballs at this guy and really don't get any answers from him. But yes he means what he says and does what he says he's going to do but yet there comes the army of Obamamaniacs to break down what he really meant.

I am not going to research from CBS, CNN, FOX or any other venue that reports anything of current events or what Obama said and I ma just going to come to you so that you can really tell me what Obama meant. :crash:

 

[Hot Mega]

Your arguments are flawed, perharps because you are being partisan yourself or held captive by your ideology? I have no affiliation to no party and or rigtht wing or left wing group and despised the lies that Bush was selling to this country for the entire 8 years he was in office and boy did Obama have been lying and getting away with what he says and no one but Joe had called him out in public.

Obama has talked a lot of shit over and over and you simpletons ( I am just borrowing your term) and the media just throw softballs at this guy and really don't get any answers from him. But yes he means what he says and does what he says he's going to do but yet there comes the army of Obamamaniacs to break down what he really meant.

I am not going to research from CBS, CNN, FOX or any other venue that reports anything of current events or what Obama said and I ma just going to come to you so that you can really tell me what Obama meant. :crash:

^^^What did you actually say up there??? The fact of the matter is if you listen to the man.....NO WHERE HAS OBAMA SAID NOR HAS HE DONE ANYTHING that suggests he's going to close GiTMO in order to release terror suspects. Now if you read or hear that from anyone else other than Obama himself or someone representing his administration on the issue...it can only be one, two or both of these things; they're lying, don't know what they're talking about or both.

Now if you want to play dumb that's up to you but NO WHERE in the video you linked does Obama say he's going to "eliminate private insurance" as the video false purports to show then falsely alleges he goes on to say.

The stupid video caption at 1:52 "Obama admitting his plan will ELIMINATE private insurance"...then shows Obama saying "I don't think were going to be able to eliminate EMPLOYER COVERAGE immediately"....

Now any clown ought to be able to figure how those are two different statements. In case some can't figure out the difference, "eliminating employer coverage" means eliminating the circumstance where the health care coverage you have is dependent on your job. Could you imagine if the only way you could get affordable auto insurance was if your employer subsidized it??? Or if your kids could only get a basic education if your employer subsidized it??? Believe it or not, the logic is that simple.

What fool should want the coverage he/she has and the doctors made available to him or her through said coverage dependent on a job that may come or go??? That's the way it is now and it's a faulty system.

In the video...it would be nice to hear what Obama says after he's shown saying he's a proponent of single payer...nice editing.