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Texas shooting leaves 26 dead. Mental health, not guns, is the issue, Trump says

Johan

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
Gunman kills 26 at Texas church service



A black-clad gunman armed with an assault rifle opened fire on a small town Texas church during Sunday morning services, killing 26 people and wounding 20 in the latest mass shooting to shock the United States.

Authorities did not identify the gunman, saying only that he was a "young white male, maybe in his early 20s," who was wearing a bulletproof vest and found dead in his vehicle after being confronted by a local resident.

Exactly five weeks after the worst shooting in modern US history, the latest tragedy prompted an outpouring of condolences, led by US President Donald Trump.
The victims, who ranged in age from five to 72, were gunned down at First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, a rural community of about 400 people located 30 miles (50 kilometers) southeast of San Antonio.
The gunman fired outside at the church before entering the building and continuing to spray bullets, said Freeman Martin, regional director of the Texas Department of Public Safety.
"As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his rifle and engaged that suspect. The suspect dropped his rifle, which was a Ruger AR assault-type rifle, and fled from the church. Our local citizen pursued the suspect at that time," Martin said.
Law enforcement later found the gunman dead in his car, which had crashed, on the Wilson-Guadalupe county line. It was not clear if he had committed suicide or was shot by the resident who had confronted him.

Multiple weapons were found in the car, which was processed by bomb technicians.
"We have multiple, multiple crime scenes. We have the church, outside the church. We have where the suspect's vehicle was located," said Martin.
"We have been following up on the suspect and where he's from. We have Texas Rangers at all the hospitals locating those and interviewing those who were injured."

US media outlets identified the shooter as a 26-year-old veteran who had faced a court-martial and was dishonorably discharged from the Air Force in 2014.
US Air Force spokeswoman Ann Stefanek told AFP that the man had served in the logistics readiness at Holloman Air Force Base, New Mexico, from 2010 until his discharge.

Victims

"There's so many families who have lost family members. Fathers, mothers, sons, and daughters," Governor Greg Abbott said, warning the toll could rise.
"The tragedy, of course, is worsened by the fact that it occurred in a church, a place of worship, where these people were innocently gunned down. We mourn their loss, but we support their family members."
The wounded had been transported to various hospitals with "injuries that vary from minor to very severe," Martin said.
The dead included the 14-year-old daughter of pastor Frank Pomeroy, the church leader told ABC News.

Annabelle Renee Pomeroy "was one very beautiful, special child," her father said.
Frank Pomeroy had been in the neighboring state of Oklahoma at the time of the shooting, and was driving back to Texas after the tragedy.
Other victims, some of whom were evacuated by helicopter, included a six-year-old boy named Rylan who was in surgery after being shot four times, his uncle told CBS News. A two-year-old was also shot and wounded, The Dallas Morning News reported.
A spokeswoman for Connally Memorial Medical Center in nearby Floresville said the hospital received eight patients with gunshot wounds. Four were transferred to San Antonio.
Trump vows 'full support'

Police formed a perimeter around the area. Tearful relatives and neighbors stood outside, nervously awaiting news from inside the traditional, white-frame church.
Agents from the FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives were headed to Sutherland Springs, the agencies said.

President Donald Trump, who is traveling in Asia, said "our hearts are broken."
"This act of evil occurred as the victims and their families were in their place of worship," he said in Tokyo.
"We pull together, we join hands, we lock arms and through the tears and through the sadness, we stand strong."
The president promised his administration's "full support" to the investigation.

As with so many other shootings before this one, Democrats pounced on the occasion to renew calls for gun control, a hot button issue in a country that holds the right to bear arms as almost sacred.
In denouncing the "act of hatred," Trump's predecessor Barack Obama said: "May God also grant all of us the wisdom to ask what concrete steps we can take to reduce the violence and weaponry in our midst."

The shooting comes just over a month after a gunman in Las Vegas fired down from a hotel room onto an outdoor concert, killing 58 people and wounding hundreds. It was the deadliest mass shooting in modern US history.
And a little more than two years ago, white supremacist Dylann Roof entered a historically black church in Charleston, South Carolina, and shot nine people to death.
https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/world/2017-11-06-gunman-kills-26-at-texas-church-service/

My thoughts go to the victims, their families, their loved ones.



Trump Says Texas Church Shooting ‘Isn’t a Guns Situation’, Blames Mental Health

President Donald Trump said Monday that Sunday's mass shooting at a Texas church "isn't a guns situation" but instead "a mental health problem at the highest level."

Asked at a joint press briefing with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe if he would consider pressing for gun control measures in the wake of America's second mass shooting in a month, Trump said "mental health is your problem here," calling the shooter a "very deranged individual" with "a lot of problems over a long period of time."

The U.S. Air Force confirmed Sunday that Devin P. Kelley, a former member of the USAF, was court-martialed in 2012 for assaulting his spouse and child and later discharged for bad conduct.

Trump dismissed guns as the root of the problem in Sunday's shooting, saying "we could go into [gun control policy], but it's a little bit too soon." He highlighted reports that a resident with a rifle confronted the gunman, saying the shooting otherwise "would have been much worse."
"It's a very, very sad event. These are great people," he said.
Earlier, Trump called the incident a "murderous attack" that embodied an "act of evil' during his first public remarks on the shooting since he awoke to them in Japan on Monday morning.
"We pull together and join hands and lock arms," Trump said, offering words of support to Texans before continuing with his remarks to business leaders here in Japan. "And through the tears and through the sadness, we stand strong. Oh, so strong."
[...]
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/t...orribly-murderous-attack-texas-church-n817791


Let's assume Trump is right, mental issues, not guns are to blame. What does he and his administration plan to do to ? What have they done ?
Oh, yeah, they revoked a bill making it harder for people with mental issues to buy guns : https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ng-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

A lot of countries have problem with mental health. Only in the US it results in mass shooting so maybe US gun laws are to blame...

Also, I can't help but notice that, once a local resident took the rifle from the shooter, the shooting ended. And to do that, the person who did it did not used any gun.
Seems like Wayne Lapierre was wrong : a good guy without a gun stopped a bad guy with a gun...
 

Ace Boobtoucher

Founder and Captain of the Douchepatrol
May their memories be a blessing. At least you had the decency to respect them a little before going AHOTY all over the place.

And President Trump is right. Existing gun laws would have done little or nothing to prevent this tragedy. This asshole shooter was stopped by a good guy with a gun, a little too late. But this turd's acquisition of whatever he was shooting with was illegal, anyway. He had a dishonorable discharge, which like a felony, precludes people from owning firearms. And he was either a proponent or a member of Antifa wishing to spark a class war because he was clearly sane.

You suck. Your threads suck. France sucks.
 

sean miguel

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
Deacons and pastors with concealed carry. Or any of the parishioners.

There have been other church shootings that have been halted much sooner when the perp was confronted by someone else who was armed.

Protect yourselves.
 

Supafly

Retired
Bronze Member
It will take a massacree of thousands, by white shooters, that might finally be the last straw.

Yeah, pastors carrying firearms, THAT is the solutions! Hey, let kids wear weapons so they won't get abused in church, too! You are so retarded
 

Bloodshot Scott

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
It will take a massacree of thousands, by white shooters, that might finally be the last straw.

Yeah, pastors carrying firearms, THAT is the solutions! Hey, let kids wear weapons so they won't get abused in church, too! You are so retarded

Have you ever even been to America? I am curious why you are so concerned about Americans. I thought you weren't American?


Same questions for Johan: Have you ever been to America? Why are you so concerned about America?


The federal government has proven recently with allegations on both sides that they are corrupt as shit - some of our federal representatives are apparently being paid by foreign governments - and you think we should willingly give them our guns?


I peg you for aligning with the "Trump is Hitler" crowd...why should we turn our guns over to Trump if he is like Hitler?
 

Johan

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
Bloodshot Scott said:
1) The federal government has proven recently with allegations on both sides that they are corrupt as shit - some of our federal representatives are apparently being paid by foreign governments - and you think we should willingly give them our guns?


2) I peg you for aligning with the "Trump is Hitler" crowd...why should we turn our guns over to Trump if he is like Hitler?

1) Who said anything about turning up your guns to the US government ? We're pro gun-control, not gun-ban.

All we what is some rules for the militia to be well regulated, not to infringe the right of the people to keep and bear arms :
- Mandatory background checks (criminal and psychological) for any gun sale
- Purchase of guns and ammos banned for every person who has been diagnosed with mental issues, found guilty of a violent crime (any crime involving physical violence or the use of any weapon or any object used as a weapon) or has is name on the CIA's terrorist watch-list. That ban could be lifted once the person has been cleared by psychologists or one she's no longer on the list (but violent criminals will be banned from purchasing guns and ammos for life).
- Any person woh'sbeen diagnosed with mental issues, found guilty of a violent crime (any crime involving physical violence or the use of any weapon or any object used as a weapon) or has is name on the CIA's terrorist watch-list banned from carrying guns. That ban could be lifted once the person has been cleared by psychologists or one she's no longer on the list (but violent criminals will be banned from carrying guns for life).
- Armor piercing ammos, high capacity magazines, fully-automatic weapons and bump-stocks banned to use, carry and sell.

I know, a lot of you guys would argue that gun-control won't stop crminals from buying guns. But just because lesgislating on an issue won't solve the issue, won't stop crminals from doing it doesn't mean we shouldn't lesgislate on the issue. Just because criminsl don't follow the laws doesn't mean we shouldn't have laws. It means we should enforce these laws, go after those who break the laws, arrest them, trial them and put them being bars.
Drugs are banned. People still buy and use drugs. Should we legalize drugs ? Or should we go after people who do/sell drugs ?
Raping is illegal. Rapists still rape. Should rape be legal ? Or should be go after rapists ?


2) Did I ever said "Trump is Hitler" ? I challenge you to find any quote from me equating Trump to Hitler (or Mussolini, Pinochet, Franco, etc.)

It will take a massacree of thousands, by white shooters, that might finally be the last straw.
On the contrary, I think the one thing that could the last draw is when radical black (or muslim) groups will start using NRA's policy and US gun laws to their advantage to the deficit of white conservatives
 

Bloodshot Scott

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
1) Who said anything about turning up your guns to the US government ? We're pro gun-control, not gun-ban.

All we what is some rules for the militia to be well regulated, not to infringe the right of the people to keep and bear arms :
- Mandatory background checks (criminal and psychological) for any gun sale
- Purchase of guns and ammos banned for every person who has been diagnosed with mental issues, found guilty of a violent crime (any crime involving physical violence or the use of any weapon or any object used as a weapon) or has is name on the CIA's terrorist watch-list. That ban could be lifted once the person has been cleared by psychologists or one she's no longer on the list (but violent criminals will be banned from purchasing guns and ammos for life).
- Any person woh'sbeen diagnosed with mental issues, found guilty of a violent crime (any crime involving physical violence or the use of any weapon or any object used as a weapon) or has is name on the CIA's terrorist watch-list banned from carrying guns. That ban could be lifted once the person has been cleared by psychologists or one she's no longer on the list (but violent criminals will be banned from carrying guns for life).
- Armor piercing ammos, high capacity magazines, fully-automatic weapons and bump-stocks banned to use, carry and sell.

I know, a lot of you guys would argue that gun-control won't stop crminals from buying guns. But just because lesgislating on an issue won't solve the issue, won't stop crminals from doing it doesn't mean we shouldn't lesgislate on the issue. Just because criminsl don't follow the laws doesn't mean we shouldn't have laws. It means we should enforce these laws, go after those who break the laws, arrest them, trial them and put them being bars.
Drugs are banned. People still buy and use drugs. Should we legalize drugs ? Or should we go after people who do/sell drugs ?
Raping is illegal. Rapists still rape. Should rape be legal ? Or should be go after rapists ?


2) Did I ever said "Trump is Hitler" ? I challenge you to find any quote from me equating Trump to Hitler (or Mussolini, Pinochet, Franco, etc.)

On the contrary, I think the one thing that could the last draw is when radical black (or muslim) groups will start using NRA's policy and US gun laws to their advantage to the deficit of white conservatives

Answer my questions. What are your ties to America?


Do you have citizenship here? Your family has citizenship here?


Honest questions.
 

sean miguel

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
On the contrary, I think the one thing that could the last draw is when radical black (or muslim) groups will start using NRA's policy and US gun laws to their advantage to the deficit of white conservatives

didn't that already happen with San Bernardino and Dallas? the NRA's policy? it's called the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

It's guns. When he could've gone in there with a knife, or thrown a couple of molotov cocktails into to pews or waited til services concluded and plowed into them with a truck like Nice.

The Virginia tech shooter killed 32 people with just two handguns - a .22 and a 9mm. No bump stock needed.


An supa, this is America. Pastors and deacons are already concealed carry as is their God-given right to defend themselves. Unfortunately not so in this church.
 

Bloodshot Scott

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
didn't that already happen with San Bernardino and Dallas?

This motherfucker comes from France, where their feckless spineless faggoty culture has allowed literally Islam to take over entire cities there in the land of their ancestors. And has the nerve to talk down to Americans. Every country in the West right now is being destroyed by loose politicians who have shit all over our countries.


I wish people would deal with reality.


The worst/most famous shooting in this country in many many years happened in Columbine in 1999. What was the big thing that occurred right at that time that since then we've seen a great many more shooting with mass casualties? The Internet.

Before 1999 most households in America didn't have a computer, and after 2000 is the tipping point when most houses DID get computer/Internet.


I see a major correlation there in that since the Columbine massacre the shootings where there are multiple casualties has occurred more frequently.

It's called "Media Contagion". And I think that speaks volumes about the reasons and crux of this matter.


“If the mass media and social media enthusiasts make a pact to no longer share, reproduce or retweet the names, faces, detailed histories or long-winded statements of killers, we could see a dramatic reduction in mass shootings in one to two years,” she said. “Even conservatively, if the calculations of contagion modelers are correct, we should see at least a one-third reduction in shootings if the contagion is removed.”


http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2016/08/media-contagion.aspx



And by the way: gun crimes have steadily been going down in America for the better part of the last 25 years.


Another liberal source:

Study: Gun homicides, violence down sharply in past 20 years

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/08/us/study-gun-homicide/index.html


But Johan and his European globalists who think they should be running OUR country won't deal with those facts, just the occasional nutter who goes off and gets famous by the blood-money enriching Media shitheads.
 

Bloodshot Scott

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
Johan is a globalist/Marxist who thinks the world should be governed by one small class of overlords - that is the only way he could possibly have so much input on our country.


I say: piss off.
 

Supafly

Retired
Bronze Member
Have you ever even been to America? I am curious why you are so concerned about Americans. I thought you weren't American?


Same questions for Johan: Have you ever been to America? Why are you so concerned about America?


The federal government has proven recently with allegations on both sides that they are corrupt as shit - some of our federal representatives are apparently being paid by foreign governments - and you think we should willingly give them our guns?


I peg you for aligning with the "Trump is Hitler" crowd...why should we turn our guns over to Trump if he is like Hitler?

Are you not aware of the implications that the path of US politics have, globally? Among them the chapters foreign politics, your various military interventions, your renewable energy stance, the way you treat your silicon valley industry, refugee politics, world trade.

G.W. Bush was really bad for your country, in regard of your country being valued and respected, and you were just getting credit again with Obama. Trump is killing you, worldwide, and China and Russia are more than willing to pick up the gains.

Why we are so interested? You have to be kidding.
 

Supafly

Retired
Bronze Member
23167688_127464025264ava0v.jpg
 

Johan

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
I'm as marxist as you're muslim...

1)didn't that already happen with San Bernardino and Dallas? the NRA's policy? 2) it's called the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

3) It's guns. When he could've gone in there with a knife, or thrown a couple of molotov cocktails into to pews or waited til services concluded and plowed into them with a truck like Nice.

4) The Virginia tech shooter killed 32 people with just two handguns - a .22 and a 9mm. No bump stock needed.

1) No it didn't. What you mention I not what I'm referring to.
You're refering to crimes. I'm referring to lawfull acts implying guns to pressure government, local authorities, businesses, or corporations to adopt policies that would benefit minorities to the deficit of white consevatives.

2) There are ways to interpet the 2nd Amendment.
Reagan was a strong supporter of gun-rights. Still he was in favor of banning assault rifles.
From 1994 to 2004, assault rifles were banned and SCOTUS never ruled such a ban to be unconstitutionnal.

3) Trump says "It's mental health". Other countries with tougher guns rules don't have club or knives wielding wackos killing people by dozens. The US do have wackos shooting people by dozens.

4) Ok, the legislations I listed won't have prevented Virginia Tech Shooting. But it would have prevented many others.
Juste because a piece of lesgislation won't totally solve an issue doesn't mean that legislation is useless and shouldn't be passed.
 

GodsEmbryo

Closed Account
[...] I am curious why you are so concerned about Americans. I thought you weren't American?

Isn't it ironic that a few posts later you post your concern about the Islamic takeover in France and Europe? People are just interested in politics, especially when it comes from the mayor players of the world, you know...

[...] What was the big thing that occurred right at that time that since then we've seen a great many more shooting with mass casualties? The Internet.

Before 1999 most households in America didn't have a computer, and after 2000 is the tipping point when most houses DID get computer/Internet.

I see a major correlation there in that since the Columbine massacre the shootings where there are multiple casualties has occurred more frequently.

It's called "Media Contagion". And I think that speaks volumes about the reasons and crux of this matter.

Interesting point and I do agree.
 

Bloodshot Scott

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
Isn't it ironic that a few posts later you post your concern about the Islamic takeover in France and Europe? People are just interested in politics, especially when it comes from the mayor players of the world, you know...



Interesting point and I do agree.

But I'm not a French site of any kind bitching about their shit. In general, America has all kinds of our own problems - enough to keep us busy for a while. If there are any European countries that I care about the most or comment on (on Facebook for example) they are Swedish, Danish, Hungarian and Czech.


The difference with a couple of these posters is they are all up in our shit, when their own houses (so to speak) are being torn apart from within because of their own masochistic self-defeating policies.
 

sean miguel

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
But I'm not a French site of any kind bitching about their shit. In general, America has all kinds of our own problems - enough to keep us busy for a while. If there are any European countries that I care about the most or comment on (on Facebook for example) they are Swedish, Danish, Hungarian and Czech.


The difference with a couple of these posters is they are all up in our shit, when their own houses (so to speak) are being torn apart from within because of their own masochistic self-defeating policies.

We are grading on a curve with the rest of the world a bunch of cucks, or in australia's case - hypocritical xenophobes.

In the interest of globalism, the U.S. should have the same immigration policy as Japan or Australia.


that whole open expanse of austailia - just think of the number of refugees they could take in.

lead by example you fucking cucks.
 

Ace Boobtoucher

Founder and Captain of the Douchepatrol
My Monsignor at my church has asked for a meeting. He wants an armed presence at every mass. I'm hip.
 

Straight Shooter

1,000 posts to go for my own user title!
White guys shoots up place

Conservative response: It's the price we pay for freedom. Nothing we can do about evil

Muslim shoots up place

Conservative response: OMG! Step up the bombings. Increase the mass surveillance. Put the Muslim ban in place. We need extreme vetting.
 
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