Obama Aims to Shield Science from Politics

[Facetious]

What I don't like about this stem cell issue is that it has become nothing more than a bandwagon. The dems know the side that they're supposed to take and the reps know the side of the issue that they're supposed to take. For me, I'm pro choice on up to the third trimester. after that point, it seems somewhat "infanticidic", if I may create a word.

After all, the woman carrying the pregnancy identifies the growing lump in her gut as as "her baby" never her fetus ! :rofl:

So yea, I don't have a problem with women sacrificing embryos.

Here's my compromise - Life begins at the conclusion of the 23rd hour of the 89th day.

:hatsoff:

 

[Member2019]

W. never outlawed stem cell research ...

One thing I'm tired of hearing is how W. outlawed stem cell research. He did no such thing. He only placed a ban on federal funding of the research. Private industry was free to research stem cells.

The lift of this ban only allows federal funding to be used for stem cell research. I personally applaud this change, as do even some Republicans, like Nancy Reagan and others. At the same time, let's not overstate what the ban was.

It's the difference between fact and rhetoric. I know a lot of people like to spew rhetoric here and elsewhere. But don't overstate what the ban was. It was merely a federal funding ban.

Some Republicans do not like to fund anything that is related to aborted children and select, other things. Yet they completely respect the right of private citizens and institutions to do what they wish. They are not in the business of telling people what they can do with their own money, time and lives.

 

[calpoon]

Re: W. never outlawed stem cell research ...

They are not in the business of telling people what they can do with their own money, time and lives.

you mean other than banning gay marriage?

 

[stampede2873]

insulating scientific decisions across the federal government from political influence

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!! I think I busted a gut!!!!

How much scientific research IS funded by the Federal Government?!?!? You can't seperate it any more than I could karate chop the Earth in half!!!

As for stem cell research....

If the research was viable, then the public sector would have been THROWING money into it.

It would not need Federal Funding!!!.

But like education the thought, " If we throw a shit ton of money it has to work, right?" comes into play.

The science at this time is unfeasible. Until we have the human genotype mapped, the science will never bear fruit.

 

[pikachar]

How much scientific research IS funded by the Federal Government?!?!? You can't seperate it any more than I could karate chop the Earth in half!!!

Yeah no doubt, think of this, a majority of medical advances comes from what.... Direct Combat, and the Army/Navy Medical departments.

Yup that's right kiddos, if you seen it on ER, we've seen it 10 years before it aired at least. ATLS is a F'n joke (except for advanced cardiac drug therapies)... Try TCCC or TCMC on for a change. Really helps having a patent airway when someone's heart isn't pumping. History of note: ATLS, BTLS, Trauma AIMS, COCH, EMT, TCCC, and TCMC are all federal medical programs. Go figure, that Department of Defense and the Department of Transportation, along with OSHA decided to be funded by the government.

Well when it comes to Stem Cell research... President 'W' as you label him, only banned new federal stem cell research. Private sectors continued to do cultivations of specific stem cell branches, otherwise the FDA wouldn't be approving stem cell therapy trials for CNS and myocardial infarctions.

 

[lovejoy]

The only country that claimed success in stem cell research and its practical use is China.
Currently well over 10,000-15,000 patients go to China each year for diseases related to stem cell injection. The result is horrible. It gives false hope to many spinal cord injury patients in US and Europe that stem cell can cure everything. Also recent advance in China to cure a young American girl with optic nerve hypoplasia may just be another "trick".

So I believe Obama is right to let N.I.H., the Federal arm of granting research funding to universities for stem cell research and advance the "cure" of many diseases. Let hundreds of universities to compete and cure diseases and live better lifes.

This has nothing to do with politics (?) Wrong ! One day China may break through and patent different treatment plans of incurable diseases such as spinal cord injurie. So the President should order NIH immdiately to start funding stem cell research to compete with other countries to better our lives instead of spending $50,000-$75,000.00 to travel to China for false hope !

 

[stampede2873]

So I believe Obama is right to let N.I.H., the Federal arm of granting research funding to universities for stem cell research and advance the "cure" of many diseases. Let hundreds of universities to compete and cure diseases and live better lifes.

No, no, no, no, no!!! The N.I.H. as you said is funded by the Federal Government. Which means they are subject to Government oversight. The science behind stem cells and their purported "miracle" uses, as of now, is a JOKE. Private sector money never made its way to the research because they know the research will bear ABSOLUTELY no fruit!

As I said in my earlier post, until we map out the human genome, we will never be able to USE, let alone make any progress with stem cells!!

Obamas claim to seperate science from politics is in itself a covert political move, a way to garner votes to funnel money into government controlled stemcell and other research. Seperation my ass! The two might as well have just become conjoined twins!!

Let me be clear, as far as stem cell research is concerned, I am all for it. However, the scientific community is NOT READY to take on that type of research yet. Genetic research is so far in its infancy it might as well be a zygote. What needs to be done is for the egomaniac scientists to be sent off to pasure so other scientists, with NO EGO or AGENDA can take their shot and conduct genetic research in the order it must be done... WITHOUT government oversight.

By the way, Government Oversight = Rushed results for political agendas. Meaning the scientific results will he hack jobbed and worthless, causing millions in dire need left with dashed hopes from empty promises.

 

[pikachar]

As I said in my earlier post, until we map out the human genome, we will never be able to USE, let alone make any progress with stem cells!!

Genetic research is so far in its infancy it might as well be a zygote.

Actually we've made leaps and bound in the past few years on this... I know I posted something before on this company called Genron before. Their overall goal is to use a map of the genome and knows virus codes, bacteria codes, and stem cell lines to develop user specific treatments. So yeah I'd agree with you... we're a Zygote, but yet again... we're getting closer.

 

[Philbert]

No, no, no, no, no!!! The N.I.H. as you said is funded by the Federal Government. Which means they are subject to Government oversight. The science behind stem cells and their purported "miracle" uses, as of now, is a JOKE. Private sector money never made its way to the research because they know the research will bear ABSOLUTELY no fruit!

As I said in my earlier post, until we map out the human genome, we will never be able to USE, let alone make any progress with stem cells!!

Obamas claim to seperate science from politics is in itself a covert political move, a way to garner votes to funnel money into government controlled stemcell and other research. Seperation my ass! The two might as well have just become conjoined twins!!

Let me be clear, as far as stem cell research is concerned, I am all for it. However, the scientific community is NOT READY to take on that type of research yet. Genetic research is so far in its infancy it might as well be a zygote. What needs to be done is for the egomaniac scientists to be sent off to pasure so other scientists, with NO EGO or AGENDA can take their shot and conduct genetic research in the order it must be done... WITHOUT government oversight.

By the way, Government Oversight = Rushed results for political agendas. Meaning the scientific results will he hack jobbed and worthless, causing millions in dire need left with dashed hopes from empty promises.

Actually we've made leaps and bound in the past few years on this... I know I posted something before on this company called Genron before. Their overall goal is to use a map of the genome and knows virus codes, bacteria codes, and stem cell lines to develop user specific treatments. So yeah I'd agree with you... we're a Zygote, but yet again... we're getting closer.

Ahhh...I feel like I'm actually learning something worthwhile. This is what a discussion is! I was beginning to forget what it was like...

There is always a disconnect between results oriented funding and pure research funding.
The con is obvious...the pro is also obvious: less waste and personal side projects.
With the stink being laid on high profits and successful business models, the pharm cos won't be as quick to fund their own research into cures and treatments based on genetic performance. The gov't is so efficient...not!...that it will take forever for real progress to be made.
Kinda feels like the old rock and a hard place dilema...

 

[puffypig2]

Ok then, take the politics out of the global warming "science".

Take it out of the organic food movement. Allow the growth hormones in animals. Animals on growth hormones, have a much smaller carbon foot print, and their food products are scientifically proven safe.

Allow cloned animals and plants to enter the food system. Science says they are safe.

The application of politics in science, isn't limited to religion.

 

[E-Ann-Hilden]

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!! I think I busted a gut!!!!

How much scientific research IS funded by the Federal Government?!?!? You can't seperate it any more than I could karate chop the Earth in half!!!

As for stem cell research....

If the research was viable, then the public sector would have been THROWING money into it.

It would not need Federal Funding!!!.

But like education the thought, " If we throw a shit ton of money it has to work, right?" comes into play.

The science at this time is unfeasible. Until we have the human genotype mapped, the science will never bear fruit.

delete

 

[lovejoy]

Stem cell research has been around for more than 40-50 years !

Researchers used the umbilical cord to harvest stem cells and did all kind of research. But the real issue is George W. Bush issued an executive order to NOT only ban federal funded stem cell research but to punish any institutions i.e. universitites involved in stem cells research. What it means is we are way behind France, Italy and even China for stem cell research. Whether stem cell research is in its infancy, it does not matter.

U.S. can attract the best and brightest scientists including the best German, Isreal, Japanese scientists to work on any stem cell projects.

NIH is the Federal arm to distribute and oversight the stem cell projects but US military (US Army) has the best capacity to do stem cell research including regeneration of skins, spinal cord injuries and limbs etc.

If we can have heart/face transplants, we can regenerate hopefully at least "some" neurons in the spinal cords using stem cells one day !

 

[Philbert]

Re: W. never outlawed stem cell research ...

you mean other than banning gay marriage?

When and where did the Republicans ban Gay Marriage?

 

[Philbert]

[/B]

delete

No!!! Don't delete!

(Is that the same as discorporate, like Michael in "Stranger in a Strange Land"?) :rofl:

 

[stampede2873]

Stem cell research has been around for more than 40-50 years!

aaaaaaaand how many times during those years did the NiH scientists claim they've made a break through, only to find in a subsequent re-trials it failed... miserably.

Believe me, I want this to work, I really do. But the reality of the situation is this.... We still don't have a clue as to how genes work. Without that knowledge, the use of stem cells to clone other cells will again, fail.

Governments always introduce a lot of beaurocricies (sp?) into EVERYTHING. Which only serve to bog down the process. Like Philbert said, we are in a catch 22 that will only fuck us all in the ass.

 

[girk1]

aaaaaaaand how many times during those years did the NiH scientists claim they've made a break through, only to find in a subsequent re-trials it failed... miserably.

Believe me, I want this to work, I really do. But the reality of the situation is this.... We still don't have a clue as to how genes work. Without that knowledge, the use of stem cells to clone other cells will again, fail.

Isn't that what science has always been about:dunno:. Theories & Experimentation.
Drugs/technological advances don't happen overnight & many have failed miserably before scientists have found an answer . Scientists build upon the successes/failures of past scientist before they figure out problems.

 

[Jason z]

It's about fucking time we actually had a president who knew what he was doing. I am about tired of all the brainwashing religion crap. It's all bullshit! Nothing but hipocrites trying to get money. Especially the Catholic Church. Has anybody hear what happend in Brazil? Fuck all organized religions. That will be mankind's ultimate defeat if we son't get rid of it. As Bill Maher said- "Grow up or die."

 

[stampede2873]

Isn't that what science has always been about:dunno:. Theories & Experimentation.
Drugs/technological advances don't happen overnight & many have failed miserably before scientists have found an answer . Scientists build upon the successes/failures of past scientist before they figure out problems.

Yes, yes it is. At least that's the way it should be. But due to pressure from the government to show results: as in tracing and identifying the human genome. Science has declared, " We did it, We know how it works!" Only to find that no.... you have failed. And made a public spectacle out of yourself and your organization. This has been done at least 3 times in the last 40 years.


This is the downside to government funding.


There are other factors as well, but I would be writing a frickin term paper.

 

[lovejoy]

Stampede2873,


Only three billion base pairs of ribonuclear acids in the human genome ! LOL !

 

[YMIHERE]

Re: W. never outlawed stem cell research ...

When and where did the Republicans ban Gay Marriage?

They surely would if they had the power. Below is from the 2008 Republican platform so don't tell me it's bias.



http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/Values.htm


Preserving Traditional Marriage
Because our children’s future is best preserved within the traditional understanding of marriage, we call for a constitutional amendment that fully protects marriage as a union of a man and a woman, so that judges cannot make other arrangements equivalent to it. In the absence of a national amendment, we support the right of the people of the various states to affirm traditional marriage through state initiatives.
Republicans recognize the importance of having in the home a father and a mother who are married. The two-parent family still provides the best environment of stability, discipline, responsibility, and character. Children in homes without fathers are more likely to commit a crime, drop out of school, become violent, become teen parents, use illegal drugs, become mired in poverty, or have emotional or behavioral problems. We support the courageous efforts of single-parent families to provide a stable home for their children. Children are our nation’s most precious resource. We also salute and support the efforts of foster and adoptive families.
Republicans have been at the forefront of protecting traditional marriage laws, both in the states and in Congress. A Republican Congress enacted the Defense of Marriage Act, affirming the right of states not to recognize same-sex “marriages” licensed in other states. Unbelievably, the Democratic Party has now pledged to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act, which would subject every state to the redefinition of marriage by a judge without ever allowing the people to vote on the matter. We also urge Congress to use its Article III, Section 2 power to prevent activist federal judges from imposing upon the rest of the nation the judicial activism in Massachusetts and California. We also encourage states to review their marriage and divorce laws in order to strengthen marriage.
As the family is our basic unit of society, we oppose initiatives to erode parental rights.